Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here].
Register and contribute [here] - it's free.
article index - [here]
 21/09/2019 - RailFuture National, Bristol
25/09/2019 - WWRUG / Transport Focus
03/10/2019 - ACoRP Community Rail Awards
05/10/2019 - WSR shuttle last for 2019
10/10/2019 - IET Signalling Talk - Reading
16/10/2019 - MRUG meeting
Random Image
Train Running @GWR Twitter Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail news GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4 Chat on off
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
September 16, 2019, 09:13:11 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[124] Where was Red Squirrel 14/9/2019
[102] Travelogue observations - 15th September 2019 - making little ...
[96] Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion
[91] Travelogue observations - 16th September 2019 - lessons from l...
[89] Special train - Okehampton to Weymouth - 14th September 2019
[82] Out of Office quiz - September 2019
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Petition for more HSTs on Cross Country Services  (Read 1678 times)
hoover50
Full Member
***
Posts: 58


Class 50 at Swindon


View Profile Email
« on: June 09, 2019, 09:36:20 am »

Railway Magazine contributor Fraser Pithie has started a petition for more HSTs to be used on Cross Country services:

https://www.change.org/p/railway-passengers-get-more-seats-and-reliability-for-passengers-on-cross-country
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2749



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2019, 11:34:28 am »

I do not expect any significant numbers of HSTs to be re-introduced on Cross country.
So doing would be seen as an admission of defeat and that the Voyagers are a failure.

The rail industry and the government have gone to a lot of trouble to try and persuade us that the future is short DMUs and that HSTs are outmoded, old fashioned and not suited to todays needs.

Short DMUs were such a splendid success on Cross country, that a large fleet of similar short units have been obtained for GWR services.

Bringing back HSTs to Cross Country might be seen as the beginning off a most undesirable trend, people will then want them back on other routes as well.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
IndustryInsider
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7509


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2019, 12:32:13 pm »

A few questions for you Broadgage:

1)  Weren't ten power cars and five rakes of coaches brought back to CrossCountry routes back in 2008 as part of a franchise commitment? 
2)  Would that not been seen as an admission of defeat just eight years after the voyager fleet was built, rather more than it might be now, some twenty years later with passenger numbers dramatically higher? 
3)  Aren't HSTs coming back to other routes as well in Scotland and also between Penzance and Cardiff on GWR routes?  Why was that not prevented to avoid embarrassment?
4)  Aren't TransPennine introducing thirteen new 'outmoded, old fashioned' loco-hauled rakes of carriages onto their services as well as new Hitachi BMUs?  Why didn't the government insist they were all BMUs to avoid unfavourable comparisons?

For the record, I am doubtful it will happen on XC, but for a different reason.  Namely the franchising hiatus meaning CrossCountry will want paying quite a lot to do it, and the government won't want to pay.
Logged

To view my GWML Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2749



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2019, 01:48:16 pm »

There have indeed been a number of small scale re-introductions of HSTs.
I do not foresee any significant returns for the reasons already given.

IMHO, the castle class short HSTs don't really count. Only four vehicles, no first class, no buffet, and retaining the high density commuter seating.
If they had been 5 vehicles, 4 standard plus one half buffet and half first class, and been low density then that would be more like a proper HST.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 26487



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2019, 01:58:20 pm »

Throwing another stone into this pond ...

The newly configured fleet running GWR Intercity services to the South West comprises trains of 2 lengths - 9 vehicle ones, and shorter (5 vehicle) ones which can run alone or coupled in pairs.

The fleet enhancement proposed in this thread for Cross Country services to the South West comprises trains of more of less 2 lengths - 9 vehicle ones, and shorter (5 or 4 vehicle ones) ones which can run alone or coupled in pairs.

It looks like this enhancement proposal in terms of mix of trains lengths and couplings would very much match what has just been done on the London trains, very much celebrating the growth of rail use by enhancing capacity using very much the same formula.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and of RailFuture
IndustryInsider
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7509


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2019, 02:16:18 pm »

There have indeed been a number of small scale re-introductions of HSTs.
I do not foresee any significant returns for the reasons already given.

Small scale re-introductions?  I make it 54 power cars for Scotrail, 10 for CrossCountry, and 24 for GWR.  Or to put it another way, 45% of the original fleet size.

I would describe those as fairly significant returns into action for a fleet you think the TOCs and government are conspiring to prevent from happening.
Logged

To view my GWML Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4483


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2019, 09:11:08 pm »

There have indeed been a number of small scale re-introductions of HSTs.
I do not foresee any significant returns for the reasons already given.

Small scale re-introductions?  I make it 54 power cars for Scotrail, 10 for CrossCountry, and 24 for GWR.  Or to put it another way, 45% of the original fleet size.

I would describe those as fairly significant returns into action for a fleet you think the TOCs and government are conspiring to prevent from happening.

No.
Logged

Now, please!
caliwag
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 333


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2019, 02:26:45 pm »

Hello, digression. Anyone know summer 2019 125 diags for xc please?
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page