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Author Topic: Off-lease High Speed Trains running out of time to avoid scrap threat  (Read 619 times)
grahame
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« on: June 18, 2019, 02:30:48 pm »

From Rail Magazine

Quote
Owners of off-lease High Speed Trains have warned that scrapping the iconic trains is a realistic proposition if new uses cannot be found for them.

More than 200 Mk 3 coaches and 22 Class 43 power cars are currently off-lease, having been replaced on Great Western Railway by Intercity Express Trains. There is currently no planned future for the trains, which date from 1976. They are being stored at Potters Group (Ely) and at Long Marston.

Article continues with comment from Angel Trains and from Porterbrook.
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GBM
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« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2019, 02:44:12 pm »

Perhaps GWR could re-hire several to make up for 'more trains needing repairs than usual'.
Won't ease the 'shortage of crew' problem but one of the two would be sorted.
Might even have a short term buffet use again (but don't let Broadgage get too excited)  Embarrassed
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broadgage
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« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2019, 03:48:56 pm »

Perhaps GWR could re-hire several to make up for 'more trains needing repairs than usual'.
Won't ease the 'shortage of crew' problem but one of the two would be sorted.
Might even have a short term buffet use again (but don't let Broadgage get too excited)  Embarrassed

Yes.
We seem to have moved on from "there is no spare stock available" to scrapping spare trains because no one wants to lease them.

And this summer has been cool so far. When/if hot weather arrives, the IETs will probably drop like flies due to overheating, and more day trippers will try to visit the West country and "enjoy" the new 5 car trains.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
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« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2019, 04:22:14 pm »

Did the ideas I heard about running some TfW services with cut down HSTs come to nothing?  Is that why we have loco hauled back on The Valleys?

An hourly Manchester to Swansea service would require 9 diagrams ... extending alternate hours to Milford Haven would be 11 diagrams.  Cardiff to Holyhead would take 10 diagrams hourly, again, it wouldn't be that frequency.  And wasn't there talk of reduced length HSTs running TfW services into Cheltenham?   There are significantly overcrowded trains on parts of these routes ... and I do wonder if a switch to HSTs, with taking over the WAG special and class 37 diagrams and releasing some class 175s to let more of their diagrams run 2+3 ....
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2019, 06:33:09 pm »

Perhaps GWR could re-hire several to make up for 'more trains needing repairs than usual'.
Won't ease the 'shortage of crew' problem but one of the two would be sorted.
Might even have a short term buffet use again (but don't let Broadgage get too excited)  Embarrassed

In the words of one of our esteemed Forum colleagues...ÖÖÖ.Ooooooooooooos gonna pay for it then?  Smiley
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bobm
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« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2019, 08:29:35 pm »

I was told earlier in the year that some TOCs had been refused a safety case to run HSTs where slam door stock wasnít already in use. 
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Phantom
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« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2019, 09:57:11 am »

Perhaps someone could have a chat with those involved with Cross Country trains, and see an end to those god awful Voyager trains
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bradshaw
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« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2019, 10:19:48 am »

Other possibilities

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/redundant-hsts-proposed-for-freight/passenger-use?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2019, 11:26:39 am »

Surely any organisation with a credible use for these trains has had years to consider the case for extending their lives, whether by converting them to freight use or by modernising them so that they are fit to run on a modern railway? As they leave front-line service, these trains consist of 40-year-old slam door stock with non-retention toilets, powered by elderly diesel engines. We may look back on them with nostalgia, even pride - but we have to accept that the scrapyard is the right place for many of them.
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onthecushions
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« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2019, 05:42:10 pm »

....these trains consist of 40-year-old slam door stock with ....... powered by elderly diesel engines.

I think that the MTU engines are only 10 years young and much better looked after than the Valentas. They are also de-rated by 500HP.

I would have thought that a power car with 3 trailers and a Mark 3 DVT would make a useful unit - plenty of bike space and c228 seats. They'd even need a guard!

OTC

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TonyK
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« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2019, 07:13:33 pm »

Surely any organisation with a credible use for these trains has had years to consider the case for extending their lives, whether by converting them to freight use or by modernising them so that they are fit to run on a modern railway? As they leave front-line service, these trains consist of 40-year-old slam door stock with non-retention toilets, powered by elderly diesel engines. We may look back on them with nostalgia, even pride - but we have to accept that the scrapyard is the right place for many of them.

One made its mark at Glasgow Queen Street yesterday, according to the BBC.

Quote
Queen Street Station services resume after smoke alert on train
18 June 2019

Smoking engine causes Glasgow Queen Street rush hour shutdown
Services at Queen Street Station in Glasgow have resumed after the station had to be evacuated during rush-hour.

Firefighters received calls at about 07:40 when smoke was spotted billowing from the front of a train. ScotRail later confirmed the smoke was caused by an engine fault.

It said it was unable to operate trains to or from the station while the incident was ongoing.

The train was removed from Queen Street and services are now back to normal.

Image copyrightCHRISTOPHER FERNAND

Three fire trucks were sent to the scene while crowds gathered outside the station.

The faulty train was one of ScotRail's un-refurbished high-speed models, also known as a classic, the operator confirmed.

There are no details about what caused the fault and the train has been moved to the Eastfield depot where engineers will carry out examinations.

Image copyright@BILBOBAGGINS2K

The train on its journey from Queen Street to the depot
A spokesman said: "There was no fire, just smoke coming out of an engine. The engine has now been moved away to the depot to have a look."

Image copyrightEWAN MCDONALD

A spokesman for the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service said: "The Scottish Fire and Rescue Service was alerted at 07:39 to reports of smoke issuing from a train at Queen Street Station in Glasgow.

"Operations control mobilised a number of fire engines to the scene however on arrival our assistance was no longer required."

And to think that could have happened at Temple Meads - we got rid in the nick of time.
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Now, please!
eightonedee
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« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2019, 07:23:10 pm »

Quote
I would have thought that a power car with 3 trailers and a Mark 3 DVT would make a useful unit - plenty of bike space and c228 seats. They'd even need a guard!

Perhaps to feature in the next Go-op proposed service?
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Timmer
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« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2019, 07:31:13 pm »

Surely any organisation with a credible use for these trains has had years to consider the case for extending their lives, whether by converting them to freight use or by modernising them so that they are fit to run on a modern railway? As they leave front-line service, these trains consist of 40-year-old slam door stock with non-retention toilets, powered by elderly diesel engines. We may look back on them with nostalgia, even pride - but we have to accept that the scrapyard is the right place for many of them.
Sadly agree. They canít go on forever. At the end of the day they are just metal, wood and plastic so wonít feel a thing at the scrap yard.
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TonyK
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« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2019, 08:01:22 pm »

Sadly agree. They canít go on forever. At the end of the day they are just metal, wood and plastic so wonít feel a thing at the scrap yard.

You can make anything go on forever - just look at the Spitfires still flying, some of them even older than the oldest trains on our network. But you have to treat them nicely, and throw lots and lots of money at them. Some say that it was wrong of the RAF to stop using them, and that the seats in the new Typhoons and F35s are much harder, but you have to move with the times.

Stick a couple of HSTs in museums, ask the heritage rail sector if they would like one or two to restore and run (at 25 mph) once or twice a year, and move on.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 10:43:21 pm by TonyK » Logged

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broadgage
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« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2019, 08:30:01 pm »

What a way to run a railway !

In many areas of the country passengers are standing on overcrowded trains whilst being told that no spare or additional stock is available.
Yet it seems to me that spare rolling stock IS available in the form of HSTs.

They wont carry on forever of course, but in the short term could be used to relieve overcrowding.

I do not believe that ANY serviceable trains should be scrapped whilst passengers are facing short trains/no trains/overcrowded trains due to "lack of rolling stock"

And what happened to the planned shuttle to Bishops Lydeard on the West Somerset Railway ? An HST could have been used on that.
Other examples no doubt exist.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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