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Author Topic: Bristol Clean Air Zone proposals  (Read 9923 times)
Bmblbzzz
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« on: July 01, 2019, 04:50:01 pm »

I thought we had a thread on this, but can't find it, so am putting this here. Two schemes have been put forward, a consultation is now going on to choose one – or perhaps to draw up a third with elements of both.
Quote
Bristol City Council's clean air zone proposals
The two options are:
Option 1: Clean Air Zone (private cars not charged)

• A zone where more polluting buses, coaches, taxis, heavy (HGVs) and light goods vehicles (LGVs) would be charged for each day they are driven in the zone. Taxis and LGVs would be charged £9 per day. HGVs, coaches and buses £100.

Option 1 would also include:

• a 24-hour a day, seven day a week HGV weight restriction on the worst polluted routes;

• A diesel car ban on Upper Maudlin Street and Park Row running from St James Barton roundabout to Park Street between 7am and 3pm, seven days a week (this would not apply to taxis/private hire or emergency services);

• Bus and local traffic changes in the most polluting areas including an inbound bus lane on the M32, an inbound bus lane on Cumberland Road and using existing traffic signals to control the amount of traffic entering congested areas with poor air quality;

• A scrappage scheme (up to £2,000) for diesel cars. This would provide a grant towards a newer cleaner vehicle or an alternative mode of transport (e.g. bus travel or purchasing a bike).

Option 2: Diesel car ban

Banning all diesel cars from driving in a specific central area (small zone) from 7am to 3pm, seven days a week (this would not apply to taxis/private hire or emergency services). Other measures, including a scrappage scheme, could also be included.

 
A six week consultation on the two options starts today (Monday, July 1) and there are a number of drop-in sessions planned to give the public the opportunity to discuss the options in more detail.

To have your say visit the consultation page on the council's website.
Quote
Details of the drop-in sessions planned

Date   Location   Time
Thursday, July 11   Barton Hill Settlement   2.30pm - 7.30pm
Monday, July 15   Easton Leisure Centre   3.30pm - 7.30pm
Monday, July 22   Hope Chapel, Hotwells   2.30pm - 7.30pm
Wednesday, July 24   Marksbury Road Library   2.30pm - 7.30pm
Tuesday, July 30   Malcolm X Community Centre   2.30pm - 7.30pm
Tuesday, August 6   City Hall   2.30pm - 6.30pm
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/your-say-what-clean-air-3039530
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2019, 06:11:23 pm »

The consultation is here: https://bristol.citizenspace.com/growth-regeneration/traffic-clean-air-zone/
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dhassell
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« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2019, 07:12:42 pm »

I can never work out the logic of why a bus should be charged and private cars not... Especially as a reasonably filled (passenger wise), Euro 6 vehicle will let out less NOx and particulate emissions per person compared to a car, even more so with the new CNG vehicles in the city... Having a daily charge on a bus just makes the operational costs even more leading to even more cuts in the long run...
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initiation
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« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2019, 11:16:47 pm »

I can't imagine option 2 being popular with locals (I'm not a fan either) so suspect it will be option 1 (or atleast delay option 2 implementation).

There are some funny areas including in the zone though. For example Brunel Way and the bridge over Cumberland basin appears to be included even if a lorry just wants to continue on the A4.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2019, 04:44:46 pm »

According to Bristol Civic Society, the Sustainable Transport Network (a group of Bristol Green Capital Partnership) is preparing a response to these proposals - I'll post it when they've finalised it.

Among other things, they are likely to say:

Quote
The plan needs to be stronger. Achieving compliance in 2029 (option 1) or 2028 (option 2) is not soon enough.
...
...other cities are delivering compliance much earlier, eg Birmingham, Newcastle, Nottingham and Sheffield by 2022.

Quote
...whilst we understand the Council’s concerns about adverse effects on low income families reliant on their car or van, we cannot ignore the health impacts on the 20% of most deprived people in Bristol who do not own a car and also have lower healthy life expectancy. They would benefit substantially from a bold Clean Air Zone.
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Noggin
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« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2019, 11:15:19 pm »

Indeed. I live in south Bristol and have an old VW camper van that I drive infrequently.

Unless they exempt them, the way that things stand, I'm going to have to pay £9 or indulge in some extensive detours, and if they go for the larger zone, I won't even be able to drive it along York Road to be serviced in Bedminster. I know I'm a niche case, but along with a lot of people I know, I'm a responsible car driver, only driving infrequently for journeys that I can't do by public transport, and I feel like I'm being penalised. 

I can see that people are worried about pollution, but at the same time, there is a big financial and environmental cost of enforcement. Over time it's going to get better on its own anyway as older vehicles will inevitably be scrapped (oh yes, and the scrappage scheme they are touting will only include those who work in town, not if you're a carer who lives on Knowle West and works in Filton). If you really want to make a difference, why not impose a workplace parking levy on workers in the city centre and reduce the numbers of on-street parking places in favour of shared spaces? Surely if you remove a load of car-based commuters you'll make a massive improvement?
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initiation
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2019, 09:14:13 am »

Indeed. I live in south Bristol and have an old VW camper van that I drive infrequently.

Unless they exempt them, the way that things stand, I'm going to have to pay £9 or indulge in some extensive detours, and if they go for the larger zone, I won't even be able to drive it along York Road to be serviced in Bedminster. I know I'm a niche case, but along with a lot of people I know, I'm a responsible car driver, only driving infrequently for journeys that I can't do by public transport, and I feel like I'm being penalised. 

I can see that people are worried about pollution, but at the same time, there is a big financial and environmental cost of enforcement. Over time it's going to get better on its own anyway as older vehicles will inevitably be scrapped (oh yes, and the scrappage scheme they are touting will only include those who work in town, not if you're a carer who lives on Knowle West and works in Filton). If you really want to make a difference, why not impose a workplace parking levy on workers in the city centre and reduce the numbers of on-street parking places in favour of shared spaces? Surely if you remove a load of car-based commuters you'll make a massive improvement?

Is your van diesel? I'd be able to drive in in my 1971 vw beetle but unable to drive in in my newer diesel car.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2019, 11:28:35 am »

The larger zone, Option 1, does not apply to private cars so would not stop you driving your camper van anywhere.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2019, 08:45:32 pm »

Quote
CITY COUNCIL MISSES THIRD GOVERNMENT DEADLINE ON CLEAN AIR PLAN

Bristol City Council has still not submitted their plans for a clean air zone, despite a government minister threatening legal action in July if a deadline of September 30 was not met.

On the day of the deadline, the council revealed that it has received an extension of five weeks to submit further plans on how it will bring the city into line with national nitogen dioxide legal limits by 2025.

An outline business case for a clean air zone is now due to to be presented to a meeting of Marvin Rees’ cabinet on November 5.

The Bristol mayor said: “We are continuing to take measures to improve both our air quality and our response to climate change.

“We remain committed to reaching nitrogen dioxide compliance as part of our work on air quality in the shortest time possible and this delay to the process does not set back either the implementation or compliance dates.

“At the same time however, we must ensure all impacts are considered and that mitigation measures are targeted to support those most affected, including the impacts on the most deprived communities.

“We also want to be certain that our ambitious clean air plans are fully scoped, have a strong evidence base to support them, and take into account the thoughts of our citizens.”

[...continues]

Source: Bristol24/7
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johnneyw
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« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2019, 09:21:13 pm »

If BCC cannot even get started building a station at the Portway P&R long after already being given the funding from the government’s New Stations Fund and receiving the necessary government planning/building permissions, then what are the chances of them producing a Clean Air Proposals report on time?
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Noggin
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« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2019, 10:36:46 pm »

Indeed. I live in south Bristol and have an old VW camper van that I drive infrequently.

Unless they exempt them, the way that things stand, I'm going to have to pay £9 or indulge in some extensive detours, and if they go for the larger zone, I won't even be able to drive it along York Road to be serviced in Bedminster. I know I'm a niche case, but along with a lot of people I know, I'm a responsible car driver, only driving infrequently for journeys that I can't do by public transport, and I feel like I'm being penalised. 

I can see that people are worried about pollution, but at the same time, there is a big financial and environmental cost of enforcement. Over time it's going to get better on its own anyway as older vehicles will inevitably be scrapped (oh yes, and the scrappage scheme they are touting will only include those who work in town, not if you're a carer who lives on Knowle West and works in Filton). If you really want to make a difference, why not impose a workplace parking levy on workers in the city centre and reduce the numbers of on-street parking places in favour of shared spaces? Surely if you remove a load of car-based commuters you'll make a massive improvement?

Is your van diesel? I'd be able to drive in in my 1971 vw beetle but unable to drive in in my newer diesel car.

Yep, seems crazy doesn't it? I find it hard to believe that the air is really much worse than in my 1970's/80's childhood, when there was still leaded petrol, traffic jams abounded, vehicles belched out god knows what and all around us were adults smoking away like chimneys.   
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stuving
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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2019, 12:00:12 am »

Yep, seems crazy doesn't it? I find it hard to believe that the air is really much worse than in my 1970's/80's childhood, when there was still leaded petrol, traffic jams abounded, vehicles belched out god knows what and all around us were adults smoking away like chimneys.   

Of course it's not worse - it's far better. For particulates, I found a some long-run data for London, showing total level (microgrammes/m3) for all sizes: this rose slowly from the middle ages (as coal usage rose) to a peak of 600 just before 1900, then fell to 200 in 1952, 30 in 1992, and is now below 15. Projections based on the new standards for combustion equipment (including vehicles) show that reducing still further.

I think there are two recent changes in our understanding of the effects of air pollution that give the impression things are getting worse - one about the harmfulness (direct and indirect, by making particles) of NOx, and the other about fine particles (PM2.5) and their ability to get deep into the lungs and then further into the body. But just because the concern is recent, that doesn't mean their levels have been going up - they haven't, in general.

One other recent worry has been the non-combustion sources of PM2.5, and how they will be dominant once (whenever) the switch to electric vehicles has got a long way. Well, yes, but all vehicle sources produce well under 10% of these fine particulates.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2019, 11:58:10 am »

One other recent worry has been the non-combustion sources of PM2.5, and how they will be dominant once (whenever) the switch to electric vehicles has got a long way. Well, yes, but all vehicle sources produce well under 10% of these fine particulates.

Our plug-in hybrid car has now done around 70,000 km and, at it's most recent MoT, showed 30% brake pad wear at the front and 20% at the rear - from new, which suggests that a lot of energy that could have gone into producing fine particulates has instead gone into recharging the traction battery.

I take the point that tyre wear (and therefore particulates from this source) is increased by heavy batteries, though. As people make the move to electric cars they will need to think hard about how big a battery they really need - it probably doesn't make sense to lug a tonne of battery around with you if drive less than 200 km a day and can charge at home, for instance, and the environmental cost of an electric car is probably always going to be proportional to its range.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2019, 04:43:29 pm »

In the Netherlands and some other countries they do/did tax cars by unladen weight. Could be worth incorporating some element of that into VED for EVs.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2019, 05:30:33 pm »

In the UK (sigh; already it almost feels almost nostalgic to use that term...) we set VED by CO2 emissions. Would it be that much of a stretch to incorporate particulate emissions into the formula?
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