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Author Topic: Bristol Clean Air Zone proposals  (Read 5034 times)
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2019, 08:52:17 pm »

I nominate the Tony K's post above for the first annual GWR Coffeeshop 'Post script longer than the post' Award.
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TonyK
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« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2019, 09:00:23 pm »

I nominate the Tony K's post above for the first annual GWR Coffeeshop 'Post script longer than the post' Award.
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I second that!

Although I'm not sure I can really vote.

It was really done to avoid politics, as a one-liner, but I got carried away.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 09:26:42 pm by TonyK » Logged

Now, please!
broadgage
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« Reply #47 on: December 02, 2019, 09:39:19 am »

Regarding the new arena that was to have been built in central Bristol, but is now proposed to be built at Filton, outside Bristol, this is IMHO regrettable but not surprising.
A venue that will attract large crowds should have been built near a major station in order that a majority of those attending could use trains, local buses that already serve the station, or walk/cycle to the venue. Only minimal parking was proposed.

The Filton site will have plenty of parking and presumes that large numbers will drive thereto and add to pollution.

A couple of years ago I met at a social event a few local political figures, two of whom were strongly opposed to the building of the arena near the station, and strongly in favour of the Filton site.
The main arguments put forward were the limited parking at the station and the perceived inability of "the railway" to cope with the crowds expected at a major venue.

In more detail, they said;

1) The railway cant cope with bank holiday traffic, so how will they cope with the thousands expected to attend the arena ?
2) Concerts often finish in the late evening, too late for rail travel.
3) Major events are planned well over a year in advance, how will the organisers of such events know that far in advance "if the trains will be running" on the relevant dates. (a then recent closure of the Brighton main line, announced AFTER people had booked airline tickets was mentioned)
4) A general criticism of "new shorter trains"

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19768.0

Edited to add link to my earlier and related post.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2019, 11:04:13 am by broadgage » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
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« Reply #48 on: December 02, 2019, 11:16:59 am »

Regarding the new arena that was to have been built in central Bristol, but is now proposed to be built at Filton, outside Bristol, this is IMHO regrettable but not surprising.
A venue that will attract large crowds should have been built near a major station in order that a majority of those attending could use trains, local buses that already serve the station, or walk/cycle to the venue. Only minimal parking was proposed.

The Filton site will have plenty of parking and presumes that large numbers will drive thereto and add to pollution.

A couple of years ago I met at a social event a few local political figures, two of whom were strongly opposed to the building of the arena near the station, and strongly in favour of the Filton site.
The main arguments put forward were the limited parking at the station and the perceived inability of "the railway" to cope with the crowds expected at a major venue.

In more detail, they said;

1) The railway cant cope with bank holiday traffic, so how will they cope with the thousands expected to attend the arena ?
2) Concerts often finish in the late evening, too late for rail travel.
3) Major events are planned well over a year in advance, how will the organisers of such events know that far in advance "if the trains will be running" on the relevant dates. (a then recent closure of the Brighton main line, announced AFTER people had booked airline tickets was mentioned)
4) A general criticism of "new shorter trains"

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19768.0

Edited to add link to my earlier and related post.

1) The railway tends to close on bank holidays if engineering work needs doing.
2) Having been to a concert at the O2 in Bristol recently, I got a bus to Temple Meads and caught the 2306 EXD train home. I could have opted for the 2337.
3) Organisers could try talking to train operating companies. How do they know, a year in advance, that the M5 won't be closed on the night?
4) I share the view of short trains.

What happened at that social event was people finding excuses. The Massive Attack show at Filton resulted in Massive traffic chaos as soon as the lights went up, with public transport nowhere to be seen. It sounds as if the powers that be are building somewhere accessible only by private transport, whilst no doubt planning events there to celebrate their declaration of a climate emergency. Within a 10 minute walk of Temple Meads are many thousands of spaces in car parks.

I was in Manchester a few days ago. They must be a bit daft up there, building their arena right next door to Victoria Station. and on a tram route too. Using the Bristol model, it should have been somewhere miles away, next to a motorway junction.
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Noggin
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« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2019, 01:19:41 pm »

I nominate the Tony K's post above for the first annual GWR Coffeeshop 'Post script longer than the post' Award.
 Grin
I second that!

Although I'm not sure I can really vote.

It was really done to avoid politics, as a one-liner, but I got carried away.

Perhaps the question we should ask ourselves is how can we turn crony capitalism to our collective advantages? I mean, if YTL can steam-roller through MetroBus, perhaps we could find a way to have them require it to be converted to a tram? And perhaps they might have a subsidiary that could get us some rail electrification on the never-never?
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TonyK
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« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2019, 02:06:25 pm »

Perhaps the question we should ask ourselves is how can we turn crony capitalism to our collective advantages? I mean, if YTL can steam-roller through MetroBus, perhaps we could find a way to have them require it to be converted to a tram? And perhaps they might have a subsidiary that could get us some rail electrification on the never-never?

Not a bad idea. Like the Mayor of Bristol, I have visited Kuala Lumpur. It has an excellent metro system.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2019, 09:49:58 pm »

Meanwhile...

Quote

COUNCIL PAUSES NEW DIESEL FLEET ROLLOUT

Bristol City Council has halted a 6m upgrade of its vehicle fleet...

The rollout... is on hold while the council assesses what new technology is available, expands its infrastructure for electric vehicles (EVs), and finalises its clean air plans, according to a spokesman.

Source and full article: Bristol 24/7
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TonyK
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« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2019, 10:38:49 pm »

Meanwhile...

Quote

COUNCIL PAUSES NEW DIESEL FLEET ROLLOUT

Bristol City Council has halted a 6m upgrade of its vehicle fleet...

The rollout... is on hold while the council assesses what new technology is available, expands its infrastructure for electric vehicles (EVs), and finalises its clean air plans, according to a spokesman.

Source and full article: Bristol 24/7

You're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't, as Bart Simpson once said. The council has given in to the populist clamour as usual. The old diesels will continue to spew their fumes and soot until after the election, when the council will have to decide whether to break the contract they have entered into, with financial costs, or stick with the Euro 6 diesels. If they switch to electric, they will show the good people of Bristol (and the bad ones too) that they mean do as they do as well as do as they say. But they will need the charging infrastructure to back it all up, plus a new contract for electricity supply because Bristol Electricity is too expensive for its owners to use.

Electric vehicles should be the weapon of choice for local and national government bodies. Let's face it, they don't go far in the average day.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2019, 09:26:12 am »

Charging points are probably not a problem for council vehicles. They are used in regular shifts so have all night to charge; rapid chargers, which are expensive (and have not yet settled on one standardised design) won't be necessary for them.
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TonyK
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« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2019, 11:51:53 pm »

Charging points are probably not a problem for council vehicles. They are used in regular shifts so have all night to charge; rapid chargers, which are expensive (and have not yet settled on one standardised design) won't be necessary for them.

Which is the most immediate thing. I drove a LPG powered vehicle for a while, which (occasionally, usually in France) involved using an adaptor to refill. It still worked better than VHS or Betamax, or 8-track versus  USB. Councils, and other government bodies, should look into whether or not electric vehicles are actually affordable. If they are, they should look into joint charging or even sharing of vehicles, something which is highly unlikely. It will take a few years before the world decides on a standard for recharging by electric, but the world has long ago decided on standards for refuelling by fossil fuels.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2019, 08:47:38 am »

...but the world has long ago decided on standards for refuelling by fossil fuels.

So well-standardised that it is even possible to put diesel fuel in a petrol car, and vice-versa. Just imagine if electric chargers had evolved that way... others may be better-placed to say what would happen if you plugged a DC rapid charger into an AC charging circuit.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2019, 04:31:31 pm »

I thought it was possible to put petrol in a diesel car but not diesel in a petrol car, because post-unleaded, petrol fillers have been smaller than diesel?
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Western Pathfinder
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« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2019, 04:55:32 pm »

Trust me people still do both ,we get at least one a month !..
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TonyK
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« Reply #58 on: December 09, 2019, 09:26:17 am »

So well-standardised that it is even possible to put diesel fuel in a petrol car, and vice-versa. Just imagine if electric chargers had evolved that way... others may be better-placed to say what would happen if you plugged a DC rapid charger into an AC charging circuit.

Yes, well, I didn't account for the human brain, which seems to have evolved little over the millennia.

I thought it was possible to put petrol in a diesel car but not diesel in a petrol car, because post-unleaded, petrol fillers have been smaller than diesel?

I believe that the different sized nozzles were to prevent leaded petrol (remember that?) going into an unleaded tank, and so ruining the expensive catalytic converter. Cars taking only unleaded petrol were new, so it was possible to incorporate the design, whereas rejigging 21 million filler nozzles isn't. It won't be a problem for long, as the end of the new private diesel car is nigh.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #59 on: December 09, 2019, 12:10:08 pm »

That's what I remember too. An unintended consequence being that, as petrol filler caps and pump nozzles are now smaller than those for diesel, it's possible to put petrol in a diesel car but not the other way round. Which sounds bad but, as it's generally more damaging to put petrol in a diesel engine than vice versa, but before that it was equally possible to make both sorts of mistake.
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