£260m Oxford-Witney Rail Proposal

[whole diary]

[Reading General]

It's still the least awful route between the Station and Magdalen Bridge. I have visions of double deckers accidentally being routed via the Broad and getting stuck under Hertford College...

I think Queen Street is only used by the routes that turn in town that don't get as far as the station. The Iffley Road route definitely uses it. I'm not quite sure why a turning circle wasn't included in the Westgate redevelopment, maybe Oxford City Council have similar planning abilities to Reading Borough Council when it comes to public transport, or possibly it may affect the quick turnaround of Stagecoach/OxfordBus vehicles and they are being stubborn about it. Either way I think the council still should make it obvious that it's still a roadway.

[eightonedee]

Hpw do cyclists manage in places like Amsterdam and Rotterdam? Full of cyclists and full of trams.

Or are our cyclists simply thicker than their Dutch counterparts, or indeed thicker than their grandparents and great grandparents who were riding their bikes amongst the tram lines all over the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) pre-WW2?

You might want to have a look at this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzKXM1UGnSw

Wallingford would be rather circuitous

The surviving Cholsey and Wallingford "points the wrong way", so if reinstated as a "real" railway could form part of what is in effect the "Reading Metro" formed by all the existing rail services that radiate out from the town. Perhaps we could then right the wrongs of the 1974 local government reorganisation and repatriate Wallingford to Berkshire!

My dad recalled cycling over tram lines in Reading's King's Road in the 1960's. They were never a problem as he had eyesight.

Tram rails appeared breaking through the surface of the Duke Street bridge until the late 1970s, but the gaps alongside where the wheel flanges used to run were long since filled with tarmac, and I expect the same was true in Kings Road too bearing in mind the last tram ran in Reading in 1939.

[Red Squirrel]

Or are our cyclists simply thicker than their Dutch counterparts, or indeed thicker than their grandparents and great grandparents who were riding their bikes amongst the tram lines all over the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) pre-WW2?

That might be one way of looking at it.

There's no doubt that tramlines are pretty nasty for the unsuspecting cyclist, and if you are going to introduce them where there were none before then it seems reasonable to at least take steps to try to minimise the hazard. At a guess though, plenty of people were injured falling off bicycles because of tramlines before the war; which doesn't make it OK. They also had rickets, diphtheria and Hitler, and we don't think much of them these days either.

[martyjon]

The Cholsey and Wallingford link could be re-instated as a tramway route whilst I accept this would upset the railway preservationists at the site.

[martyjon]

There is nothing wrong in riding a bike in a city with numerous tram lines, you just avoid poking the front wheel into the part of the tram lines where the wheel flanges go. However if you watch cyclists on Bristol Harbourside they deliberately poke their front wheels that way but the wheel flange gaps are so packed solid with dust that their front wheels don't disappear into the underground.

[martyjon]

Melbourne is a city to see for tramlinks. A number of less remunerative rail links were closed and converted to tram links. At the out of city destinations the converted tram links were then connected into the local tram lines so the populus had an express tram service from downtown Melbourne to the suburb then a stopping service in the suburb, Port Melbourne and St. Kilda were two such places that I remember from my visits.

[Reading General]

Tram rails appeared breaking through the surface of the Duke Street bridge until the late 1970s, but the gaps alongside where the wheel flanges used to run were long since filled with tarmac, and I expect the same was true in Kings Road too bearing in mind the last tram ran in Reading in 1939.

They still do on the London Street side from time to time. A small section was removed a few years back, but a piece of pointwork is still under the road. On the other side of the I.D.R a section appears from time to time outside the Great Expectations pub. Because of the undulating nature of the road, I am still convinced that tram rails are still under parts of Erleigh Road even though evidence from historians suggests that the Corporation removed them. They also said they removed them in London Street too.

 The Reading Corporation trams ran on a grooved rail that seemed relatively shallow. If you wander down along the railway behind Southcote Estate between Circuit Lane and Southcote Farm Lane you can see several pieces of Corporation tram rail being used as fence posts 80 or more years (depending on which part of the system they came from) after trams last ran along them!

[Robin Summerhill]

...They also had rickets, diphtheria and Hitler...

Nice quote from "Capstick Comes Home" c.1981 by the late Tony Capstick.

If anyone's got a couple of minutes to spare:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2AcJSkUw6M

[CyclingSid]

There have been problems with cyclists and the Edinburgh trams. I believe there is a court case imminent or in the process.

[Reading General]

I will still never understand it. Each time I ride a bicycle I'm looking as to where and what the bicycle is riding on. It could be suggested that drains pose a problem to cyclists, or cattle grids. If I rode my bicycle, got it caught in a tram line and fell off I would see this as my fault for not looking where I was going rather than the fault of something that is far bigger and more important than me as an individual. So, much like level crossings, the risk is that we are no longer responsible for our own actions.

[Robin Summerhill]

I will still never understand it. Each time I ride a bicycle I'm looking as to where and what the bicycle is riding on. It could be suggested that drains pose a problem to cyclists, or cattle grids. If I rode my bicycle, got it caught in a tram line and fell off I would see this as my fault for not looking where I was going rather than the fault of something that is far bigger and more important than me as an individual. So, much like level crossings, the risk is that we are no longer responsible for our own actions.

Absolutely. And as the one who started this sub-thread within a thread in raising this topic, I would add that I too am a cyclist (although more of an ex-cyclist with failing eyesight these days) who has ridden in "tram infested" areas like Manchester city centre, and I take tram lines to be just one of those hazards that one has to cope with when cycling.

[ellendune]

It could be suggested that drains pose a problem to cyclists, or cattle grids.

Road gullies (drains) were considered a hazard many years ago when most of the grates were laid with the bars going parallel to the kerb (so the slot was in the direction of cycle travel). These were called long-bar gully grates. However, this has been recognised as a safety hazard by highway authorities as an issue for over 40 years now and so very few (if any) long bar gully grates remain now.   

[martyjon]

It could be suggested that drains pose a problem to cyclists, or cattle grids.

Road gullies (drains) were considered a hazard many years ago when most of the grates were laid with the bars going parallel to the kerb (so the slot was in the direction of cycle travel). These were called long-bar gully grates. However, this has been recognised as a safety hazard by highway authorities as an issue for over 40 years now and so very few (if any) long bar gully grates remain now.

Most new road gully drain covers these days are 2 inch thick slabs of wrought iron with 2 inch diameter holes and you'de have to be a contortionist to push your front wheel of a push bike down a 2 inch diameter hole.