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Author Topic: When is super off peak valid / splitting journey  (Read 2442 times)
grahame
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« on: July 08, 2019, 02:49:28 pm »

Sage's advise please.   Meeting in Westbury until about 14:00 tomorrow then up to Bedford for overnight.  Back as far as Milton Keynes for a 10:30 meeting (of about 3 hours) on Wednesday then back to Melksham.

Tempted by a super off peak return Westbury to Bedford Stations but puzzling over return restrictions.   Noting it's valid via Bletchley.  73.50 return (48.50 with old bloke's railcard).   Can one of our sages please tell me my options out from Euston or St Pancras and back along - the Bedford to Bletchley leg on Wednesday morning and then into Euston.  Aware I'll be in London until the 20:12 off Paddington.
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2019, 07:57:07 pm »

That fare is showing on BR fares ( http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=WSB&dest=0410&rlc=SRN ) with a restriction code of XC, details of which are here: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/XC

Code XC doesn't mention travel in London other than the normal peak restrictions, and there should be no further restrictions imposed over and above those stipulated fir code XC.

Of course, what happens if you meet a member of staff who used to be employed by HEX could be another matter entirely... Smiley
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grahame
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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2019, 08:02:11 pm »

That fare is showing on BR fares ( http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=WSB&dest=0410&rlc=SRN ) with a restriction code of XC, details of which are here: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/XC

Code XC doesn't mention travel in London other than the normal peak restrictions, and there should be no further restrictions imposed over and above those stipulated fir code XC.

Of course, what happens if you meet a member of staff who used to be employed by HEX could be another matter entirely... Smiley

Thanks - I was wondering how the text

Quote
Notes
Super Off-Peak tickets from stations not listed are valid for connections into trains departing as shown above.

Validity code 2V applies to all journeys via Birmingham Stations.

Restriction code 2W applies to all journeys via Newbury or Didcot Parkway, not passing through Reading.

Restriction code Q8 applies to all journeys via Fareham / Southampton / Salisbury.

Restriction codes CI / CJ apply to all journeys via London St Pancras International.

Restriction codes 2C / 9I apply to all journeys via London Euston.

changed things ....and there's no link on those codes  Undecided
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2019, 08:25:58 pm »

I must admit I hadn't spotted those further restrictions for St Pancras and Euston. It is a simple matter to Google them, however, and the appropriate NRE page comes up. I've only skim read them, but they basically appear to reiterate the usual London peak hour restrictions.

It would be best to check for yourself, of course.
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grahame
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2019, 06:01:41 am »

I must admit I hadn't spotted those further restrictions for St Pancras and Euston. It is a simple matter to Google them, however, and the appropriate NRE page comes up. I've only skim read them, but they basically appear to reiterate the usual London peak hour restrictions.

It would be best to check for yourself, of course.

It's getting really tricky to be off peak or super off peak and if any one leg on the journey falls at a busy morning or afternoon time, the unsplit price soars.  Like 73.50 to 243.00 before railcard.   The very silly business of charging peak prices for the whole journey even if it's just one short element that's on a train that may be busy. One wonders how swipe in  / swipe out / automatic fare calculation would deal with this scenario.

Cost effective solutions may be splitting, re-routing or simply paying a second time for one leg, bearing in mind that the return ticket is just 1 more than the single.
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2019, 10:31:53 am »

Sometimes we can all fall victim to failing to see the wood for the trees. The whole point of off peak ticketing is to encourage off peak travel. Or to put it another way, the railays don't want or need people with cheap tickets cluttering up their platforms and trains in the peak when there are more than enough people around who will pay the full fare to travel at those times. So, in summary:

If you want to play by the railways rules you can do the journey for 48.50
If you want to play by some of the railways rules you can do the journey for 65.00
If you don't want to play by the railways rules at all the journey will cost you 160.40

Of course, we all know that split ticketing options can also be employed to reduce fares, but the above summarises the crux of the issue
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grahame
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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2019, 02:44:57 pm »

Sometimes we can all fall victim to failing to see the wood for the trees. The whole point of off peak ticketing is to encourage off peak travel.

Indeed - and "happy" to pay a peak fare for a peak journey.  What doesn't thrill me is to make five journey legs, four off peak, and end up paying peak for all five.   Probably cheaper to buy the package deal for five off peak legs plus a peak single for the remaining leg than to buy an anytime ticket for the whole.

Quote
If you want to play by the railways rules you can do the journey for 48.50
If you want to play by some of the railways rules you can do the journey for 65.00
If you don't want to play by the railways rules at all the journey will cost you 160.40

Or if you want to make my journeys, 160.40 with an anytime ticket, or 4.75 for the extra bit I need in the peak to my break-of-journey point for a meeting, plus 48.50 = 53.25
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ChrisB
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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2019, 03:01:47 pm »

Could you simply just excess your ticket to peak for the leg in question? Or can you only excess the whole ticket? (My understanding is you can excess part of a journey/ticket, but it may be all of the outward/return, which is no use to you)
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grahame
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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2019, 03:28:46 pm »

Could you simply just excess your ticket to peak for the leg in question? Or can you only excess the whole ticket? (My understanding is you can excess part of a journey/ticket, but it may be all of the outward/return, which is no use to you)

I am finding a way to economise / reroute even though it will result in a significantly less comfortable and convenient journey.  In trading off cost v my volunteer time, cost is the priority for this particular role. Fortunately I can work on my laptop jus about anywhere ...
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2019, 04:50:33 pm »

Quote from: grahame
Quote from: ChrisB
Could you simply just excess your ticket to peak for the leg in question? Or can you only excess the whole ticket? (My understanding is you can excess part of a journey/ticket, but it may be all of the outward/return, which is no use to you)

I am finding a way to economise / reroute even though it will result in a significantly less comfortable and convenient journey.  In trading off cost v my volunteer time, cost is the priority for this particular role. Fortunately I can work on my laptop jus about anywhere ...

I've just wasted half an hour wading through the Conditions of Carriage to try to answer the excess fare question, but there is nothing specific there. The two links on the NRE website to "detailed ticket information" both appear to be broken.

All this might be too late now for Graham anyway, but I certainly wouldn't risk trying to excess a ticket on the train in those circumstances, although asking at a booking office prior to travel wouldn't hurt I suppose.

We don't know the time details for Graham's original plans, but if it were me and there was only one train that fell foul of peak restrictions, I would simply buy a single for that portion of the journey to which the restriction applied and would use (and present) that instead. I don't see it as fraudulent in any way, any more than split ticketing is, because you would have a valid ticket for that service. The fact you also happen to have a ticket in your wallet that is not valid for that train would be beside the point, because you are not using it anyway.
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2019, 04:55:32 pm »

Quote from: grahame
Quote from: Robin Summerhill
If you want to play by the railways rules you can do the journey for 48.50
If you want to play by some of the railways rules you can do the journey for 65.00
If you don't want to play by the railways rules at all the journey will cost you 160.40

Or if you want to make my journeys, 160.40 with an anytime ticket, or 4.75 for the extra bit I need in the peak to my break-of-journey point for a meeting, plus 48.50 = 53.25

I accept I may not have phrased that very well because I wasn't having a did at you personally, but just stating the bleedin' obvious  Grin
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grahame
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2019, 05:14:59 pm »

Quote from: grahame
Quote from: ChrisB
Could you simply just excess your ticket to peak for the leg in question? Or can you only excess the whole ticket? (My understanding is you can excess part of a journey/ticket, but it may be all of the outward/return, which is no use to you)

I am finding a way to economise / reroute even though it will result in a significantly less comfortable and convenient journey.  In trading off cost v my volunteer time, cost is the priority for this particular role. Fortunately I can work on my laptop jus about anywhere ...

I've just wasted half an hour wading through the Conditions of Carriage to try to answer the excess fare question, but there is nothing specific there. The two links on the NRE website to "detailed ticket information" both appear to be broken.

These things are a nightmare, aren't they?

Quote
All this might be too late now for Graham anyway, but I certainly wouldn't risk trying to excess a ticket on the train in those circumstances, although asking at a booking office prior to travel wouldn't hurt I suppose.

We don't know the time details for Graham's original plans, but if it were me and there was only one train that fell foul of peak restrictions, I would simply buy a single for that portion of the journey to which the restriction applied and would use (and present) that instead. I don't see it as fraudulent in any way, any more than split ticketing is, because you would have a valid ticket for that service. The fact you also happen to have a ticket in your wallet that is not valid for that train would be beside the point, because you are not using it anyway.

I would agree on simply buying an extra section to cover the peak bit.

Plan was ... Melksham to Westbury this morning. Westbury to Bedford via London and Bletchley this afternoon. Back as far as Bletchley (then off route / extra ticket to Milton Keynes) first thing tomorrow.  Early afternoon Milton Keynes - Bletchley - London - Melksham.   Certainly fell found of 09:30 start from Bedford tomorrow morning ... could have done other legs as super off peak and would have risked arriving in Paddington just into the evening peak and having to wait for the 19:12.  However, also an element of risk getting caught in London this afternoon once we tried to work out the Euston / St. Pancras stuff. 

Cutting a long story short (well - shortER!) I used an off peak return Melksham to Westbury for this morning's meeting, and a super off peak period return) which has no evening limits from Melksham to Bicester Village.  I am now on the X5 bus to Bedford.  Train to Milton Keynes in the morning, meeting there and home more or less the same route when it's over without having to worry about racing to get out of London before the evening peak.

Oxford Station to Gloucester Green to pick up the X5 is not "just across the road" ... I know from experience about half an hour ago that Bicester Village Station to where the X5 stops in not "just across the road" either and it's not exactly obviously waymarked for a first timer anyway.    I guess they make it so awkward so that when East - West rail opens they can make a REALLY BIG difference!
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grahame
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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2019, 05:17:13 pm »


I accept I may not have phrased that very well because I wasn't having a did at you personally, but just stating the bleedin' obvious  Grin


Hadn't taken it personally  ... and previous follow up was posted before I read the comment.    (Poor connectivity from this b-u-s and I've been tweeting the server too which has been running a bit rough)
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bobm
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2019, 05:56:10 pm »

I've been tweeting the server too which has been running a bit rough)

Impressive - the server is on Twitter....  Grin
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ChrisB
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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2019, 10:33:56 am »

Oxford Station to Gloucester Green to pick up the X5 is not "just across the road" ... I know from experience about half an hour ago that Bicester Village Station to where the X5 stops in not "just across the road" either and it's not exactly obviously waymarked for a first timer anyway.    I guess they make it so awkward so that when East - West rail opens they can make a REALLY BIG difference!

Bicester Village station to the X5 stop in Market Square is a lot simpler and shorter than catching it in Oxford, that's for sure.
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