Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 10:55 28 Mar 2024
- Man suffers life-threatening injuries after train stabbing
- How do I renew my UK passport and what is the 10-year rule?
* Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
28th Mar (1917)
Bideford, Westward Ho! and Appledore closed (link)

Train RunningCancelled
09:12 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
09:29 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
10:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
10:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
10:41 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
11:00 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
11:05 Swindon to Westbury
11:16 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
11:23 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington
11:30 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads
11:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
12:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
12:17 Westbury to Swindon
12:30 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare
13:15 Swindon to Westbury
14:19 Westbury to Swindon
15:14 Swindon to Westbury
Short Run
06:00 London Paddington to Penzance
06:05 Penzance to London Paddington
07:28 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
07:33 Weymouth to Gloucester
09:45 Bristol Temple Meads to Salisbury
09:50 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
10:55 Paignton to London Paddington
11:12 Salisbury to Bristol Temple Meads
11:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
12:03 London Paddington to Penzance
Delayed
06:37 Plymouth to London Paddington
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
08:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington
08:48 London Paddington to Swansea
09:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
09:30 Weymouth to Gloucester
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
09:51 Warminster to Gloucester
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
10:23 London Paddington to Oxford
11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
13:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 28, 2024, 11:13:01 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[171] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[97] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[66] Return of the BRUTE?
[56] If not HS2 to Manchester, how will traffic be carried?
[52] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[41] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Overchecking of tickets - on train and at arriving station.  (Read 10613 times)
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2019, 20:47:29 »

If I travel from here to Cheltenham via Bristol, I put my ticket into the Gateline at Chippenham. I may get my ticket checked by GWR (Great Western Railway) staff on the train to Bristol, especially if its in the peak, and if I go outside for a fag break at Bristol it gets checked twice more, and one of those won't operate the Gateline because of the built-in time delay. The XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) TM(resolve) on the Brum train will want to check my ticket too, and when I get to Cheltenham, it goes into a Gateline again. That sounds like at least four, and possibly up to six, ticket checks to me, at least one more than the people on your train "suffered." Quite probably many of them who joined at unstaffed stations between Frome and Weymouth only got theirs checked twice; once on the train, and once by the RPOs at Weymouth.
Good point but in terms of "feel", I don't think putting your ticket in a gateline feels the same as having it checked by a person. That said, I'm not sure there is a problem here, other than the slight delay to passengers leaving at Weymouth.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7743



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2019, 20:55:10 »

If I travel from here to Cheltenham via Bristol, I put my ticket into the Gateline at Chippenham. I may get my ticket checked by GWR (Great Western Railway) staff on the train to Bristol, especially if its in the peak, and if I go outside for a fag break at Bristol it gets checked twice more, and one of those won't operate the Gateline because of the built-in time delay. The XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) TM(resolve) on the Brum train will want to check my ticket too, and when I get to Cheltenham, it goes into a Gateline again. That sounds like at least four, and possibly up to six, ticket checks to me, at least one more than the people on your train "suffered." Quite probably many of them who joined at unstaffed stations between Frome and Weymouth only got theirs checked twice; once on the train, and once by the RPOs at Weymouth.
Good point but in terms of "feel", I don't think putting your ticket in a gateline feels the same as having it checked by a person. That said, I'm not sure there is a problem here, other than the slight delay to passengers leaving at Weymouth.

Why not just install ticket barriers at Weymouth?
Logged
PhilWakely
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2007



View Profile
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2019, 21:07:08 »

If I travel from here to Cheltenham via Bristol, I put my ticket into the Gateline at Chippenham. I may get my ticket checked by GWR (Great Western Railway) staff on the train to Bristol, especially if its in the peak, and if I go outside for a fag break at Bristol it gets checked twice more, and one of those won't operate the Gateline because of the built-in time delay. The XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) TM(resolve) on the Brum train will want to check my ticket too, and when I get to Cheltenham, it goes into a Gateline again. That sounds like at least four, and possibly up to six, ticket checks to me, at least one more than the people on your train "suffered." Quite probably many of them who joined at unstaffed stations between Frome and Weymouth only got theirs checked twice; once on the train, and once by the RPOs at Weymouth.
Good point but in terms of "feel", I don't think putting your ticket in a gateline feels the same as having it checked by a person. That said, I'm not sure there is a problem here, other than the slight delay to passengers leaving at Weymouth.

Why not just install ticket barriers at Weymouth?

Ticket barriers and/or manual checks - there are a number of ways an apparently valid ticket can be used fraudulently [peak v off-peak; child v adult; part-journey; Advance on wrong train, etc] Personally, it is nothing more than a minor inconvenience to have my ticket 'properly' checked multiple times on my journey
Logged
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7743



View Profile
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2019, 21:58:20 »

If I travel from here to Cheltenham via Bristol, I put my ticket into the Gateline at Chippenham. I may get my ticket checked by GWR (Great Western Railway) staff on the train to Bristol, especially if its in the peak, and if I go outside for a fag break at Bristol it gets checked twice more, and one of those won't operate the Gateline because of the built-in time delay. The XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) TM(resolve) on the Brum train will want to check my ticket too, and when I get to Cheltenham, it goes into a Gateline again. That sounds like at least four, and possibly up to six, ticket checks to me, at least one more than the people on your train "suffered." Quite probably many of them who joined at unstaffed stations between Frome and Weymouth only got theirs checked twice; once on the train, and once by the RPOs at Weymouth.
Good point but in terms of "feel", I don't think putting your ticket in a gateline feels the same as having it checked by a person. That said, I'm not sure there is a problem here, other than the slight delay to passengers leaving at Weymouth.

Why not just install ticket barriers at Weymouth?

Ticket barriers and/or manual checks - there are a number of ways an apparently valid ticket can be used fraudulently [peak v off-peak; child v adult; part-journey; Advance on wrong train, etc] Personally, it is nothing more than a minor inconvenience to have my ticket 'properly' checked multiple times on my journey

I'm beginning to think some people consciously enjoy it! 🙂
Logged
PhilWakely
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2007



View Profile
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2019, 22:41:16 »

Another perfectly valid reason for multiple checks on a single journey is the relatively new phenomenon of split-ticketing. I have heard anecdotal evidence [but not seen definite evidence] of some pax having just two of several tickets checked [start and end] and then claiming refunds on the unchecked tickets. Unlikely to happen on a Melksham to Weymouth ticket, but consider, say, a Paignton to Stafford journey.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2019, 06:40:49 »

Why not just install ticket barriers at Weymouth?

There would be sense in that.  There might be sense in doing that for the SWR» (South Western Railway - about) station (that's platforms 2 and 3) and not for the GWR (Great Western Railway) station (that's platform 1).  GWR trains are typically fully checked by the train manager. SWR trains are (I don't think) fully checked in the same way.

So where's the problem in the system, and what would you do to "sort it out?"

See above for a suggestion.  And also look to the experts to help us work out further system improvement suggestions.

Quote
I feel your bringing up the Belmont Pullman is a complete red herring.

Others (not yourself I don't think, Robin) suggested that all trains irrespective of the operator running them, should have all their passengers checked at a block. ALL trains, you note. So (I agree with you) it's very unlikely that anyone would have arrived unticketed on that train - but never the less others are suggesting that all eleven carriages of people should have queued for inspection via the couple of active checkers.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
bradbrka
Transport Student
Jr. Member
****
Posts: 22


View Profile Email
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2019, 08:07:55 »

Is the real problem that the ticket check was not properly resourced for the number of passengers arriving on that service, not that the check took place?
Logged
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1145


View Profile Email
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2019, 10:36:45 »

Quote from: Bmblbzzz
...I don't think putting your ticket in a gateline feels the same as having it checked by a person. That said, I'm not sure there is a problem here, other than the slight delay to passengers leaving at Weymouth.

Feel is I suppose another word for perception in this case. And people's perceptions can vary. For example, I was recently on a Paddington-bound train when the TM(resolve) came along to check tickets (we were passing Dauntsey in case anyone is interested!). The bloke in the seats in front of me presented his ticket and the TM asked to see his Disabled Person's Railcard.

The conversation then got heated on one side. Raising his voice the passenger said "Can't you see I'm disabled?" To which the TM replied "But I still need to see your railcard Sir." Then came the reply "I'm being victimised - because I'm disabled"!

We may all have differing views about this, but mine are that yes it was pretty obvious that he was disabled, but that in itself doesn't entitle him to a third off the normal fare. Buying s disabled person's railcard entitles him to the reduction, and him being disabled entitles him to apply for the railcard. The issue the TM was dealing with was ensuring that the guy had purchased the railcard, not whether or not he was disabled.

Was he being victimised? The hell he was... But that didn't stop him perceiving victimisation where none was present.

Perception may not always come up with the correct answer.
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2019, 10:49:21 »

Or did he just not have a card and was bluffing it?
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
Fourbee
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 672


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2019, 11:55:55 »

The issue the TM(resolve) was dealing with was ensuring that the guy had purchased the railcard, not whether or not he was disabled.

I always present my railcard with my ticket, saves any embarrassment all round.
Logged
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1145


View Profile Email
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2019, 12:17:39 »

Quote from: Fourbee
Quote from: Robin Summerhill
The issue the TM(resolve) was dealing with was ensuring that the guy had purchased the railcard, not whether or not he was disabled.

I always present my railcard with my ticket, saves any embarrassment all round.

Quite. In a similar vein, nobody who knows me or sees me in the street would have any doubt that I am over 60. However, simply being over 60 does not entitle me to reduced rate travel - it entitles me to apply for a railcard and pay for it and then get reduced rate travel.

If I was ovr 60 and hadn't bothered to get a Senior Railcard then I have to pay full whack for my ticket. The same goes for disabled people.
Logged
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1145


View Profile Email
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2019, 12:28:48 »

Quote from: bradbrka
Is the real problem that the ticket check was not properly resourced for the number of passengers arriving on that service, not that the check took place?

I would have some sympathy with that view. However, perhaps "having to wait to have their ticket checked" need quantifying. It is not uncommon to find a queue at a Gateline - indeed, when I arrived in Huddersfield from Sheffield last year the queue at the Gatelines was so long that I didn't bother going outside for a cigarette and went straight on to Bradford!

So was it a few seconds? A minute? Five minutes (but that seems unlikely)? This will have a bearing on the matter because, leaving to one side the fact that some appear to think they shouldn't have been checked at all.

In other words, there may not have been a problem significant enough to need resolving in the first place.
Logged
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18894



View Profile
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2019, 14:02:04 »

There would be sense in that.  There might be sense in doing that for the SWR» (South Western Railway - about) station (that's platforms 2 and 3) and not for the GWR (Great Western Railway) station (that's platform 1).  GWR trains are typically fully checked by the train manager. SWR trains are (I don't think) fully checked in the same way.


Since when did Weymouth become two stations? Its one station with three platforms. Services can and do use any platform.

Quote

Others (not yourself I don't think, Robin) suggested that all trains irrespective of the operator running them, should have all their passengers checked at a block. ALL trains, you note. So (I agree with you) it's very unlikely that anyone would have arrived unticketed on that train - but never the less others are suggesting that all eleven carriages of people should have queued for inspection via the couple of active checkers.

I think you are being facetious grahame. Merely because I left out the words 'scheduled' or 'service'. You will note however that at gated stations all passengers from charters are expected to wait their turn/queue to enter/exit platforms after showing their authority to travel. I and many others had to do this numerous times when we travelled on the Flying Banana.

I think you've made an unnecessary mountain of a molehill with this moan grahame.

Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2019, 15:19:18 »

With railcards, the TM(resolve)'s response should (presumably) be along the lines that the TM doesn't need to check the passenger's disability/age/etc, just to see their railcard. Aren't they given training in asking this sort of thing?
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
Celestial
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 674


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2019, 15:46:49 »

I think you've made an unnecessary mountain of a molehill with this moan grahame.

I agree completely. It's hardly an inconvenience to wait a couple of minutes.  And even with a consciencious guard trying to collect fares, the busier the train, the more likely he is to miss someone that looks down as he goes past to avoid paying.  And others may have bought a ticket for only the first part of the journey.

Of all the things we criticise the railway for, this seems to be one of the most minor complaints.
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page