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Author Topic: GWR December 2019 TT  (Read 10049 times)
REVUpminster
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« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2019, 08:06:19 pm »

The Devon Metro timetable will be half hourly Exmouth - Paignton, alternating between fast (Exmouth - Lympstone - Topsham - Newcourt - Digby - Exeter Central - St David's - Dawlish - Teignmouth - Newton - Torre - Torquay - Paignton) and all stopper using 4 car 150s.

Barnstaple - St James Park hourly using 158s/16x.

Still in the potential offing Okehampton - Exeter 3 morning, 3 evening services using 143s.

I still don't understand why a metro service has non stopping services. Exmouth because it is single line should have a regular half hour interval but will Dawlish Teignmouth and Paignton. Paignton will be the place where late running trains will need a generous layover time to regulate the service. It may have to be as the fastest running time Exmouth to Paignton is 1hr 28m so a train leaving Exmouth at 10.30 will arrive at 1158. It would have to be held at Paignton until 1227 to arrive back at Exmouth at 13.55 to make the 14.00. Of course it could leave at 12.15 but it will have to lose time somewhere (Dawlish Warren or Exeter St David's) for a path down to Exmouth.

It does not seem that commuter friendly for a metro if the new service is slower than the old irregular timings.

I know this is a difficult line to timetable but when I tried some timings a few years ago when the Devon metro was first mooted I thought it would be easier to timetable a Barnstaple Exmouth service with a half hour shuttle between Exeter St David's and Exmouth and Paignton Exeter Central service.

To understand how the service would work a train would run Barnstaple-Exmouth-St David's-Exmouth-Barnstaple.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 08:21:38 pm by REVUpminster » Logged
DaveHarries
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« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2019, 11:44:36 pm »

The Devon Metro timetable will be half hourly Exmouth - Paignton, alternating between fast (Exmouth - Lympstone - Topsham - Newcourt - Digby - Exeter Central - St David's - Dawlish - Teignmouth - Newton - Torre - Torquay - Paignton) and all stopper using 4 car 150s.

Barnstaple - St James Park hourly using 158s/16x.
From what I have heard:

- On Mondays to Saturdays:
- Barnstaple trains to run hourly on a recast timetable and terminate at St. James Park using Class 158 traction. There will be an earlier first train from Barnstaple which will arrive into Exeter at around 0730 (this 0730 arrival may be Mondays to Fridays only: no idea if it will operate on Saturdays). The new timetable will be designed to offer a better overall service between Exeter and Barnstaple.

- Stops (stopping patterns?) on Barnstaple trains are amended.

- Paignton trains are enhanced to half-hourly with those which currently terminate at / start from Newton Abbot now running through to Exmouth. I have heard that the calling pattern between Paignton and Exeter St. Davids will be something like this:

From Paignton to Exmouth:
- one per hour calling Torquay, Torre, Newton Abbot, Teignmouth and Dawlish. Some of these will also call at Dawlish Warren on Saturdays.
- one per hour calling all stations

From Exmouth to Paignton:
- one per hour calling Dawlish, Teignmouth, Newton Abbot, Torre, Torquay & Paignton. Some will also call at Dawlish Warren on Saturdays.
- one per hour calling all stations.

The trains will not be clockface in every hour due to pathing for faster services. Exmouth to Exeter services will remain half hourly.

On Sundays:
- Barnstaple trains to run hourly on a recast timetable and terminate at St. James Park using Class 158 traction. This will be a big improvement on the current Sunday service which is only 7 trains each way: I hope it will be well used.

- Paignton to Exmouth trains will run hourly calling at all stations between Paignton and Exeter giving an improved Sunday frequency.

HTIOI,
Dave
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REVUpminster
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« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2019, 07:30:24 am »

If pathing for a faster train means stuck at Dawlish Warren then it's not an improvement. The Metro trains should be timed to arrive and depart after the express is timetabled at Newton Abbot or Exeter. This would provide better interchange for passengers wanting Dawlish and Teignmouth.

Paignton passengers would suffer a longer wait at Newton Abbot for the express unless they stayed on the train to Exeter by which time an express would not be far behind but a metro service is for commuters and Paignton and Torquay have become commuter towns for Exeter because that's where the jobs are. The metro cannot beat the car but then there is no parking aggro.
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DaveHarries
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« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2019, 07:08:57 pm »

For anybody interested the GWR timetables are now live on RealTimeTrains. Links to times for Barnstaple:

- Weekdays: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BNP/2019/12/16/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
- Saturdays: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BNP/2019/12/21/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt
- Sundays: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BNP/2019/12/15/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

HTIOI,
Dave
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REVUpminster
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« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2019, 07:43:14 am »


Thanks for a link I always have trouble with accessing. Adapting it for Paignton the last train runs a few minutes later but no longer stops after Dawlish so arrives at Exeter earlier than now. Still love to stick the trains in Dawlish Warren to allow the express to pass hopefully on time.

Sunday afternoon/evening looks better but no early train and I wonder if the connections are any better.

The Plymouth/Penzance seem to be leaving Paddington xx04 and the Exeter/Paignton xx37 except for the first trains when it's reversed and there is still that oddity of 1C91 being overtaken by 1C92 at Exeter and 1C91 becomes the local. I always wondered if 1C91 was a candidate for splitting  a 10 car and the front half being the local and the rear half making a service back to London or Bristol.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 08:02:32 am by REVUpminster » Logged
xmth
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« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2019, 04:05:07 pm »

Will there be enough DMUs to run the planned services in Devon and Cornwall from December? At the present time GWR regularly struggle to fulfil 3 / 4 car diagrams as there really is no spare capacity, meaning that short formed trains are a regular occurrence.

One Exmouth/Barnstaple/Paignton diagram is currently 2 car. One 150/2 currently works in the Bristol area.

By the 31st December all eight of the 143s must leave and there are also question marks over how long the 3 x Angel 150/2s will remain; also the future of the 2 x 150/0s is unclear.

As I understand it a couple of Turbos will be able to switch move from Reading to Bristol from the start of the new timetable. No more will be able to transfer until the Flex trains are in service but, on present progress, that isnít going to be any time soon!

I believe that there are currently 10 Castle Class diagrams, so not much more leeway there. I am open to correction on this one.

Three 3 car 158s have to be found to work the Tarka Line.

I read that a number of 3 car 158s are being converted to 2 cars; where will these be used? 158s are needed for the Brighton services; will these be 2 or 3 cars?

Away from the summer months I calculate that GWR needs 20 x 150s to operate the planned Devon and Cornwall branch services, the exact number that they have. No fat there!

Is anyone able to provide some clarification on these issues?
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Charlie (in Gloucester)
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« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2019, 05:31:48 pm »

Will there be enough DMUs to run the planned services in Devon and Cornwall from December? At the present time GWR regularly struggle to fulfil 3 / 4 car diagrams as there really is no spare capacity, meaning that short formed trains are a regular occurrence.

One Exmouth/Barnstaple/Paignton diagram is currently 2 car. One 150/2 currently works in the Bristol area.

By the 31st December all eight of the 143s must leave and there are also question marks over how long the 3 x Angel 150/2s will remain; also the future of the 2 x 150/0s is unclear.

As I understand it a couple of Turbos will be able to switch move from Reading to Bristol from the start of the new timetable. No more will be able to transfer until the Flex trains are in service but, on present progress, that isnít going to be any time soon!

I believe that there are currently 10 Castle Class diagrams, so not much more leeway there. I am open to correction on this one.

Three 3 car 158s have to be found to work the Tarka Line.

I read that a number of 3 car 158s are being converted to 2 cars; where will these be used? 158s are needed for the Brighton services; will these be 2 or 3 cars?

Away from the summer months I calculate that GWR needs 20 x 150s to operate the planned Devon and Cornwall branch services, the exact number that they have. No fat there!

Is anyone able to provide some clarification on these issues?


GWR have spent an extra year working on the timetable to ensure that it is ship shape, I am sure enough that the planning teams have allocated trains to routes where appropriate. Unfortunately, some capacity improvements will be postponed due to various changes to plans around the Thames  Valley however all that means is retention of more sprinters.
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REVUpminster
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« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2019, 07:04:46 pm »

Not from knowledge but observation there seems to be more 150/2s in pairs and 143's in pairs this summer although with the occasional 2 coach train still runs. I just bet they will not let the 143s go. In the North they already keeping some into 2020.

Also the artists impression of the rebuilt Exeter Depot showed 3 coach 158s

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=20516.15
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Charlie (in Gloucester)
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« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2019, 10:09:39 pm »

Not from knowledge but observation there seems to be more 150/2s in pairs and 143's in pairs this summer although with the occasional 2 coach train still runs. I just bet they will not let the 143s go. In the North they already keeping some into 2020.

Also the artists impression of the rebuilt Exeter Depot showed 3 coach 158s

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=20516.15

I really donít think the artist who designed those images is the same person who decides the train lengths come December   Wink
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REVUpminster
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« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2019, 10:24:17 pm »

Not from knowledge but observation there seems to be more 150/2s in pairs and 143's in pairs this summer although with the occasional 2 coach train still runs. I just bet they will not let the 143s go. In the North they already keeping some into 2020.

Also the artists impression of the rebuilt Exeter Depot showed 3 coach 158s

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=20516.15

I really donít think the artist who designed those images is the same person who decides the train lengths come December   Wink

Commercial artists work to a brief. They are told to illustrate 3 coach trains that look like 158s not what they think might be used.
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plymothian
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« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2019, 07:24:33 am »

Will there be enough DMUs to run the planned services in Devon and Cornwall from December? At the present time GWR regularly struggle to fulfil 3 / 4 car diagrams as there really is no spare capacity, meaning that short formed trains are a regular occurrence.


Of course there aren't.  And the local management are well aware there won't be.
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grahame
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« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2019, 08:24:09 am »

There are currently 11 x 3 car 158s on the fleet, made up from 15 x 2 car and 1 x 3 car originally - i.e. there are 10 units with extra driving cabs in the middle.

As an example, GWR could split 6 of the 3 car 158s,  leaving 5 3 car units and giving them 9 2 car rather than 6 3 car trains - net gain of 3 trains.    There are - what - 6 or 7 143s so that would replace a half of them, and then a single 3 car 158 running in place of 2 x 143 (would that change the number of seats much?) would replace the other half of the 143 fleet.    Strikes me as a balancing act ... and wonder if it might just overbalance.   Said to be more Castles live  in service and less away for refit too.
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« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2019, 09:37:43 am »

Simple solution is to have more Castles but oooooooz gonna pay for it!
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paul7755
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« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2019, 01:28:48 pm »

From a post in the wnxx forum, the 158 status in early December is intended to be:

7 x 3 cars:
158798, 158956-158961

11x 2 cars:
158745, 158747, 158750, 158751,
158760, 158761, 158762, 158763,
158764, 158765, 158766

Paul
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phile
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« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2019, 08:07:38 pm »

From a post in the wnxx forum, the 158 status in early December is intended to be:

7 x 3 cars:
158798, 158956-158961

11x 2 cars:
158745, 158747, 158750, 158751,
158760, 158761, 158762, 158763,
158764, 158765, 158766

Paul

Wasn't that altered at a later stage.   There is now no 158960 and there is a 2 Car 158769.
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