Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here].
Register and contribute [here] - it's free.
article index - [here]
 07/09/2019 - Railfuture Severnside
08/09/2019 - CCIF initial bids deadline
14/09/2019 - Okehampton to Weymouth
21/09/2019 - RailFuture National, Bristol
25/09/2019 - WWRUG / Transport Focus
03/10/2019 - ACoRP Community Rail Awards
Random Image
Train Running @GWR Twitter Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail news GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4 Chat on off
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
August 25, 2019, 04:36:06 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[123] Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since Septemb...
[60] Where was Red Squirrel 23/8/2019
[44] Looming driver shortage - heritage railways
[20] Meltdown - airline style!
[17] Bristol Temple Meads Station redevelopment
[10] Paralympian Sophie Christiansen stuck on SWR train - BBC News
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Why do Welsh place names appear around the world?  (Read 596 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 26308



View Profile WWW Email
« on: August 11, 2019, 10:52:30 pm »

From The BBC

Quote
Why do Welsh place names appear around the world?

Why does Swansea pop up on the map several times in the USA and Australia? How did magnificent Milford Sound in New Zealand come to bear the name of Milford Haven in Pembrokeshire? And what is the story behind Llandudno in Cape Town, South Africa?

The answer, according to Swansea University's Gethin Matthews, is fairly complicated but relates to how Welsh skills in heavy industries were highly sought after.

"It's all about economics - Irish emigration was much more about desperation, while Welsh emigration was driven by aspiration," he said.

Looking wider ... to the rest of the area we cover,

Wikipedia -

Quote
"Taunton is a city in Bristol County, Massachusetts, United States.

Taunton was founded by settlers from England and officially incorporated as a town on September 3, 1639. Most of the town's settlers were originally from Taunton in Somerset, England, which led early settlers to name the settlement after that town. At the time of Taunton's incorporation, they explained their choice of name as being “in honor and love to our dear native country"

Quote
Oxford is a city in, and the county seat of, Lafayette County, Mississippi, United States. Founded in 1837, it was named after the British university city of Oxford in hopes of having the state university located there, which it did successfully attract.

Quote
Truro is a town in Barnstable County, Massachusetts, United States, comprising two villages: Truro and North Truro. Located slightly more than 100 miles (160 km) by road from Boston, it is a summer vacation community just south of the northern tip of Cape Cod, in an area known as the "Outer Cape". English colonists named it after Truro in Cornwall, United Kingdom.

Truro was settled by English immigrant colonists in the 1690s as the northernmost portion of the town of Eastham. The town was officially separated and incorporated in 1709.

The lack of a "Melksham" elsewhere in the world - away from Wilthshire - has oft surprised me; whether its because a contented lot lived hereabouts and there was little emigration, or because transport wasn't good (  Wink ), I don't know.  There is a "Melksham" surname in Australia, and indeed a number of connections there.

What about your town??
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and of RailFuture
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 391


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2019, 11:19:06 pm »

I have actually been to the Llandudno on the Cape Peninsula, Cape Town. It is litle more than a small isolated suburb on the Atlantic coast, and topographically the complete opposite of the one in North Wales. The South African one is right on the coast and connected to the main Cape Town to Hout Bay road which is at a much higher level.

I suspect that the majority of these names simply stem from the fact that immigrants many years ago named them after either their home town/ village or somewhere that was important to them. Other places in Cape Town and Cape Province named after UK places include:

Malmesbury
Worcester
Plumstead
Kenilworth
Woodstock
Somerset West
Clifton
Ottery
Atholl

And in Johannesburg there is a Bryanston, where the woman who would be my mother in law if I had the common decency to marry her daughter, lives... There is also a Buccleuch not far away and also a Kempton Park

But back to LLandudno, when in South Africa don't try to use the Welsh pronunciation, because you will get many an odd look, as I have found to my cost...  Grin
Logged
johnneyw
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1008


Still want to work on the railways when I grow up.


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2019, 11:31:55 pm »

Inhabitants of Brittany may also note how many places in Cornwall and Wales have Breton sounding names.
Logged

Railway rock n' roll rebel. I once bought a return ticket and didn't go back!
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 391


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2019, 11:52:41 pm »

Inhabitants of Brittany may also note how many places in Cornwall and Wales have Breton sounding names.

That will probably have more to do with sharing a common language, or having languages that have the same "root" language.

An example of that (and as we were mentioning South Africa on this thread) there is a word "kloof" in Afrikaans which means "steep sided valley." There is a Lancashire dialect word "Clough" which means exactly the same thing.
Logged
ellendune
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3297


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2019, 06:49:16 am »

Inhabitants of Brittany may also note how many places in Cornwall and Wales have Breton sounding names.

That will probably have more to do with sharing a common language, or having languages that have the same "root" language.

An example of that (and as we were mentioning South Africa on this thread) there is a word "kloof" in Afrikaans which means "steep sided valley." There is a Lancashire dialect word "Clough" which means exactly the same thing.

Bretton Cornish and Welsh languages are very similar
Logged
patch38
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 563


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2019, 10:09:58 am »

As Eddie Izzard said of the Pilgrim Fathers, "They set off from Plymouth and landed in Plymouth. How lucky is that?"
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2168


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2019, 11:38:41 am »

There are something like 35 places called Bristol around the world, mostly in North America but also Australia and even a small village in Peru. What's most surprising though is that in many places around the world, the grandest hotel in town is called the Bristol.

Non-locally there's the fairly well known but tiny hamlet of Moscow near Kilmarnock, but I don't think it was named by Russian settlers!
Logged

Day return to Infinity, please.
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4086


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2019, 12:34:51 pm »

Non-locally there's the fairly well known but tiny hamlet of Moscow near Kilmarnock, but I don't think it was named by Russian settlers!

Moscow, or Little Moscow, appears all over the place, often explained as the site of a camp for Russian (or often Polish) soldiers who ended up in Britain after the war awaiting politicians to decide their fate. In many cases that was being sent "home" where Stalin treated them as traitors, of course.
Logged
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 391


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2019, 12:36:43 pm »

Quote from: Bmblbzzz
Non-locally there's the fairly well known but tiny hamlet of Moscow near Kilmarnock, but I don't think it was named by Russian settlers!

Given the feudal system that was in place under the Tsars, the Communist system in place post-1917, and the religious tolerance issues that have been rumbling on for centuries in many ocuntries and between many faiths, I wouldn't be 100% sure about that...
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2168


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2019, 12:57:11 pm »

Fair point. Wikipedia says:
Quote
The name is thought to be a corruption of "Moss-hall" or "Moss-haw" but its spelling was amended in 1812 to mark Napoleon's retreat from Moscow.[citation needed] The name may also be of Brittonic origin, and derived from the words maɣes, "field" and coll, "hazel" (Welsh maes-coll).[1] A stream called the Volga Burn flows through the village.[citation needed] Locally the land and forest around Cowans Law to the north-west is referred to as 'Little Russia'. The hamlet also shares the same latitude (55° North) as the Russian city.

If the Volga Burn is correct – and it does appear on Google maps of the area (but where do they get their names from?) – that would suggest more than coincidence, though of course it's possible the stream was named later in reference to the village, which originated as "Moss-hall". Of course Moscow in Russia is not on the Volga, which Russians would know but locals not necessarily.
Logged

Day return to Infinity, please.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page