Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here].
Register and contribute [here] - it's free.
article index - [here]
 tomorrow - MRUG meeting
tomorrow - ACoRP board nominations close
18/10/2019 - TravelWatch SouthWest
18/10/2019 - GWR meet the team - Westbury
19/10/2019 - MRUG/CS "Thank you" BBQ
21/10/2019 - Ticket booking test - BRI
Random Image
Train Running @GWR Twitter Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail news GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4 Chat on off
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
October 15, 2019, 02:18:43 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[94] London Overground - proposed ticket office reduction of hours
[84] Restoration of original prototype HST to service
[56] Climate Change Emergency - Implications for UK Transport Strat...
[52] IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent pe...
[47] Collapse of Thomas Cook
[44] On crossing borders by public transport - to and within the UK...
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Are our railways are getting more violent?  (Read 448 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 26725



View Profile WWW Email
« on: September 05, 2019, 08:01:26 am »

from The BBC

Quote
Crime recorded on British railways increased by 12% last year including a rise in the number of violent and sexual offences, new figures show.

British Transport Police recorded 68,313 crimes in 2018/19, up from 60,867 during the previous 12 months.

Violent crime accounted for a fifth of all cases after a 17% rise to 13,591, while sexual offences rose by 8% over the same period to 2,635.

BTP said the figures show serious crime is rare across 3.3 billion journeys.

Are they really getting more violent, is it reporting that's rising because of the floor to wall encouragement to report these days, or is it rising but in proportion to passenger numbers on certain lines?  How evenly spread are the reported crimes?
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and of RailFuture
CyclingSid
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 516


Hockley viaduct


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2019, 07:00:20 am »

It does seem a bit of a mish-mash of figures, even allowing for the usual innumeracy of journalists. Normal journalist practice to use 25%, a quarter and 1 in 4 in a single article which doesn't make it always clear to the reader.

The yardstick keeps varying: one serious crime per million passengers, all crimes recorded per million journeys, and rate of thefts per 100,000 passengers. None of these are directly comparable, assuming the basis of each is sensible. Are the passengers in "Rate of thefts per 100,000 passengers" taken from the ORR figures, if so which?

When I had a quick look I couldn't find the figures which are the basis for the graph. Looking for the base figures because a rate (per 100,000 passengers) can cover some small numbers. They say figures less than ten excluded, but what if the highest figure was 50 at Paddington which would hardly be significant (apart from for the individuals concerned).
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2808



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2019, 03:14:18 pm »

I have a gut feeling that violent crime on the railway is increasing, based on anecdotal reports rather than hard data.
I would suggest at least three reasons for this increase.

Firstly the railway is busier than in the past, and if other factors remain constant then one might expect that if passenger numbers increase by 50%, then that violent crime would increase similarly. The risk per person might remain similar.

Secondly violent crime is increasing in general, why would the railway be exempt ?

Thirdly, there has subjectively been an increase in gross overcrowding on trains, and major breakdowns that close London termini for a day. Whilst the majority grin and bear it, a minority take out their frustrations on railway staff or on fellow victims.

I feel that many crimes of violence result in unduly lenient sentences.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4701


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2019, 04:11:23 pm »

It's a reflection of society as a whole.
Logged
eightonedee
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 460



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2019, 10:20:30 pm »

As someone whose commute includes two towns that were popular drinking centres during the winebar/extended drinking hours boom of the early years of this century (remember the policy of extending drinking hours to encourage a "cafe culture"?), the subsequent decline in the patronage of such establishments and alcohol consumption by the young has reduced considerably the number of rowdy inebriated passengers, and associated incidents usually troubling train crew rather than other passengers, I encounter during the mid-evening late commuter period.
Logged
Noggin
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 349


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2019, 03:18:42 pm »

As someone whose commute includes two towns that were popular drinking centres during the winebar/extended drinking hours boom of the early years of this century (remember the policy of extending drinking hours to encourage a "cafe culture"?), the subsequent decline in the patronage of such establishments and alcohol consumption by the young has reduced considerably the number of rowdy inebriated passengers, and associated incidents usually troubling train crew rather than other passengers, I encounter during the mid-evening late commuter period.

Indeed - I would suggest that it's quite possible to have a decline in the kind of casual, low-level violence that comes from people worse the wear getting shirty with each other and train crew, whilst at the same time having a few incidents getting really nasty, presumably because knives, bottles and other weapons got involved.

Also, it's possible that it's not the number occurring going up, but the number being reported. 20 years ago most would have taken a walkman or wallet being nicked on the chin, but when it's a 600 phone or a 1500 MacBook, insurance needs a crime number and it's a different matter. Also, assault of all kinds is worth reporting when there's CCTV and a possibility of conviction, especially given the #MeToo movement, plus more sensitive policing.

So not trying to trivialise it, but saying that you can have those statistics but to actually have less chance of being a victim of crime than you were 20 years ago. 

Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page