Storing petrol

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

Members will be glad to know that my petrol supply has again proved most useful.
20 litres loaned to a local farmer to power chainsaws for cutting up fallen trees. They had the maximum lawful volume of 30 litres stored on their premises but this proved insufficient.

The other 10 litres supplied to someone reliant on a petrol fueled generator for medical equipment. In fact their own 30 litre supply was JUST sufficient, but only just. Another hour or two without mains electricity could have had most serious consequences.

There is no general petrol shortage at present, but that does not help if local filling stations are closed for various reasons, including, no staff, no electricity to operate the pumps, out of petrol and no re-supply due to blocked roads.

[broadgage]

Only just managed to restock before the next petrol panic, which is now well underway.

[Sixty3Closure]

Having recently had a long power cut I'm thinking about buying a generator which will mean storing petrol. A battery generator doesn't appear to have enough power for my needs although would be more convenient.

Not having mains water I'm reliant on pump which of course needs electricity. A small generator would mean we continue to have drinking water. Heat and cooking come from an oil fired range and log burner.

I feel like I'm joining Broadgage in preparing for the zombie apocalypse.

[broadgage]

A generator does not HAVE to be petrol burning, though most smaller generators are petrol.
Propane generators exist but are less common. Propane is at present hugely expensive and in short supply, large volumes may be kept.
Diesel generators are much cheaper to run, and the fuel is safer to store. There is almost no limit on diesel storage.

If you drive a petrol car or use a petrol motorcycle, then a petrol generator has the merit that the same fuel supply may be used in either vehicle or generator. Most petrol generators have small fuel tanks and need frequent refueling.

If you drive a diesel vehicle, then a diesel generator might be best to simplify fuel storage. Whilst red diesel may be legally used in a domestic generator, I would store the more costly white diesel in order that it may lawfully be used on the road if need be. A diesel generator will often run 24 hours without refueling.

If you already use propane, then a propane generator is worth considering, they run for days on the larger cylinders and for a month or more on a bulk tank. If you do not already use propane, then I would avoid the complication of adding another type of fuel.

The size of the generator will obviously depend on what you wish to run, but I often recommend a minimum 4 kw for a modest home.
Allow about 1 kw in total for lighting and for the multitude of low loading appliances found in most homes.
TV, computer, fridge, freezer, heating boiler/pump, cellphone charger, cordless phone base unit, internet router, a dozen low energy lamps.
Then allow 3 kw to permit use of just one heavy loading appliance. Kettle, toaster, washing machine, water heater, microwave oven, power tool, vacuum cleaner, portable heater, table top size electric cooker, hair dryer, and the like, but ONLY ONE such appliance at a time.
For a larger home, I would suggest a minimum of 7 kw. That allows 1.5 kw for lighting and small appliances, more lamps and some duplication of small appliances. And allows about 5.5 kw for use of any two of the larger loading appliances listed previously.

[Bmblbzzz]

In India, where every business larger than a corner shop has its own generator, they're all diesel not petrol. Another factor to beware of is that testing of hospital generators in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) has shown that most of them don't work when needed, simply because they're virtually never needed. Again, certainly not a problem encountered in a country like India! And of course they are very noisy and smelly. You'll want to site it as far from the house as possible.

[broadgage]

A modern diesel generator will probably be less noisy and cleaner burning than the possibly well used examples found in India.

I would still use it at least three meters away from ones house, further is better. Keep it well secured with a SUBSTANTIAL padlock and chain. Generators attract the pilfering classes.

Take great care WRT^▸ (with regard to ) the electrical arrangements.

For a basic but new diesel generator with an output of 4 kw, expect to pay in the region of £2,000. Larger sizes do not cost that much more. That will be for a 3,000 rpm machine which is fine for standby use but not for prolonged use.

I would with care fuel a diesel engine whilst running.

If considering a standby generator, then also install a few self contained emergency lights. To light your bathroom, the stairs, the kitchen, and where you keep the generator.
Be certain that these are the "proper" emergency lights as used in public buildings and NOT domestic rubbish. They run for a minimum of 3 hours and are fully automatic. Replace the battery every five years, or earlier if found wanting.

[Sixty3Closure]

Thank you for the information- very useful.

We're probably looking at a 600w-1KW generator only to power the pump and water treatment plant. It would be stored in the shed with the pump and filters. It already has a hefty padlock although we're so remote any theft would either be obvious as never see people or easy if we're not around and you could make as much noise as you want. I did wonder about filtering the air which might mean leaving the shed door open although noise shouldn't be a problem.

We were thinking aspen petrol as it has a longer life and can be used in the mower.

[broadgage]

Be careful if using a generator for a water pump. Some water pumps have substantial starting currents and may be beyond the capacity of of a generator that sounds sufficient.

Aspen petrol does indeed keep better and burns cleaner, still subject to the 30 liter limit though.

[TonyK]

If you drive a petrol car or use a petrol motorcycle, then a petrol generator has the merit that the same fuel supply may be used in either vehicle or generator. Most petrol generators have small fuel tanks and need frequent refueling.

If you drive a diesel vehicle, then a diesel generator might be best to simplify fuel storage. Whilst red diesel may be legally used in a domestic generator, I would store the more costly white diesel in order that it may lawfully be used on the road if need be. A diesel generator will often run 24 hours without refueling.

If you drive an electric vehicle, then an electr....

Hang on, I'll get my coat.

[broadgage]

If you drive a petrol car or use a petrol motorcycle, then a petrol generator has the merit that the same fuel supply may be used in either vehicle or generator. Most petrol generators have small fuel tanks and need frequent refueling.

If you drive a diesel vehicle, then a diesel generator might be best to simplify fuel storage. Whilst red diesel may be legally used in a domestic generator, I would store the more costly white diesel in order that it may lawfully be used on the road if need be. A diesel generator will often run 24 hours without refueling.

If you drive an electric vehicle, then an electr....

Hang on, I'll get my coat.

Some of the newer electric cars incorporate a 13 amp socket, powered from the battery via a suitable converter. Some at least are good for a full 13 amps for as long as the battery lasts.

Could be useful for domestic standby purposes, if the loads are modest. 1 kw for 24 hours would still leave enough charge in the battery for local journeys.

[Red Squirrel]

It may at first seem bizarre, but you can use this feature to rescue another EV with a flat battery. Not as quick as siphoning out some petrol, but in an hour or so you may be able to transfer enough energy to get them to a charge point.

[TonyK]

It may at first seem bizarre, but you can use this feature to rescue another EV with a flat battery. Not as quick as siphoning out some petrol, but in an hour or so you may be able to transfer enough energy to get them to a charge point.

Have you tried to siphon petrol from a modern car? Not as easy as in the olden days unless you go equipped, as they say on the charge sheet.

[broadgage]

A train strike is almost inevitable.
Although freight operators are NOT striking, they will be severely impacted by signalers and other network rail staff striking.
Most petrol and diesel fuel is transported in bulk by rail, with final distribution by road to filling stations.

I don't think that the sheeple have realised yet, but any day now !

This would be a good time for road tanker drivers to strike. Sympathetic strike action is prohibited, but nothing prohibits independent strike action that happens to occur at the same time.

This would also be a good time for XR^▸ (Crossrail) to disrupt fuel supplies. Or for terrorists to blow up anything fuel related.

[ellendune]

Most petrol and diesel fuel is transported in bulk by rail, with final distribution by road to filling stations.

I am not sure this is true any more.  I thought most of it went by pipeline to the distribution depots. 

[broadgage]

There is certainly some pipeline distribution, but AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) a lot still goes by rail.
Does anyone have actual figures as to what percentage of UK^▸ (United Kingdom) liquid fuel is transported by rail ?