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Author Topic: Storing petrol  (Read 1070 times)
broadgage
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« on: September 19, 2019, 03:10:42 pm »

Effect on oil price would be negligible compared to the bombing of the Saudi refinery and shipment port, surely.

Yes, in theory refinery problems* should REDUCE crude oil prices since reduced refinery activity means less demand for crude oil. Shortages of refined products might logically increase the prices of these products.
In fact markets do not always respond logically and refinery problems* sometimes seem to increase crude prices.

I expect that this blockade will have a negligible impact on crude oil prices.
If however the blockade is long continued, or repeated at other refineries, then a shortage of refined oil products such as petrol and diesel fuel is likely.
The recent attacks in Saudi Arabia, whilst not directly relevant, might make consumers more nervous and  more liable to panic buying/prudent stocking up/hoarding.
I never panic buy, but have done some prudent stocking up.

*Not just blockades, but also industrial disputes, fires, terrorist attacks, mechanical failures and damage from extreme weather.

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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
bignosemac
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« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2019, 03:32:59 pm »

Meanwhile, petrol near my current location has gone down 2p a litre in the past couple of days.
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2019, 03:34:26 pm »

A good time to panic buy then.  Cheesy
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2019, 03:39:03 pm »

I never panic buy, but have done some prudent stocking up.
I lay in prudent stocks.
You hoard.
He panic buys.
 Wink
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broadgage
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« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2019, 04:01:10 pm »

I never panic buy, but have done some prudent stocking up.
I lay in prudent stocks.
You hoard.
He panic buys.
 Wink

Yes, or in more detail, prudent stocking up is done well before any emergency or disaster suggests a particular need.
Panic buying is done when the emergency or disaster is clearly imminent or has already occurred.
"Hoarding" is a bit more subjective but to me it implies illegal or immoral behaviour in wartime whereby others are deprived.
I don't drive but keep a modest reserve of petrol.
I usually heat with fire wood and off peak electricity, but keep a reserve of paraffin.
I use mains powered electric lights, but also have battery lights and keep a reserve of batteries.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2019, 05:41:38 pm »

I agree that hoarding implies behaviour which is illegal or immoral and from which the hoarder often intends to profit by selling the stock later, though I don't think it's restricted to wartime.

It seemed the most appropriate word (I could think of at the time) to conjugate the irregular verb.

Out of curiousity, what is your modest reserve of petrol for if you don't drive?
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broadgage
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« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2019, 05:53:30 pm »

My reserve petrol is for any friends who drive here and cant obtain petrol to return, for neighbours from whom I might want a favour, or possibly other uses not yet foreseen.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2019, 06:08:42 pm »

My reserve petrol is for any friends who drive here and cant obtain petrol to return, for neighbours from whom I might want a favour, or possibly other uses not yet foreseen.

Storing any quantity of petrol is incredibly dangerous, and illegal above a relatively small amount...…….I hope you observe the rules, and keep it well away from your coach and horses.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2019, 06:16:39 pm »

Would you let your coachman or domestic staff use this?

Seriously, the really dangerous thing with petrol is not the liquid, which is obvious, but the invisible vapour.
Example
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2019, 06:17:43 pm »

Highly irresponsible.
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broadgage
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« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2019, 06:58:18 pm »

Highly irresponsible.

To what do you refer ?
The protesters ? Or to my store of petrol which I believe to be safe and legal. I store no more than 30 liters, in purpose made steel jerry cans. These are kept in a locked detached outbuilding.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2019, 08:56:55 pm »

Highly irresponsible.

To what do you refer ?
The protesters ? Or to my store of petrol which I believe to be safe and legal. I store no more than 30 liters, in purpose made steel jerry cans. These are kept in a locked detached outbuilding.
If all 30 litres are in steel jerry cans, that's probably not legal. It seems from a quick goggle that you're allowed two steel cans (10 litres each) and two plastic (5 litres each).
https://www.lawnmowersdirect.co.uk/blog/news/petrol-cans-safe-storage/
Quote
5-litre plastic cans
You are legally able to store two of these cans at home, meaning you could have up to 10 litres stored in plastic cans at any one time. These tend to be the most common form of fuel container, with around three million being sold every year, usually from petrol station forecourts.

10-litre metal containers
You are legally able to store up to 20 litres in metal cans, meaning you can have up to two 10-litre metal fuel containers.

In total you can store up to 30-litres of petrol at home by using two 10-litre petrol cans in combination with two 5-litre plastic containers. The fuel in your lawnmower or other petrol garden machinery also counts toward this storage limit.
30 litres is not far off the tank of the last car I had (though that was diesel) and twice the motorbike I had back when I was motorcycling, so it seems an awful lot to store if you don't have a car.

That website also points out that petrol 'goes off'; they quote a usable limit of three months – so unless you have an awful lot of friends using your stored petrol, it seems a bit of a waste.

Edit: Something more official: http://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/petrol-storage-club-association.htm
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 09:03:45 pm by Bmblbzzz » Logged

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Celestial
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« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2019, 10:00:39 am »

Highly irresponsible.

To what do you refer ?
The protesters ? Or to my store of petrol which I believe to be safe and legal. I store no more than 30 liters, in purpose made steel jerry cans. These are kept in a locked detached outbuilding.
I'm just shocked that you use the American spelling of litre.   I had imagined you to be last bastion of everything that Britain stands for.  But I'm also intrigued as to why you feel the need to store so much petrol when you don't have a car.  That's an awful lot of lawn you can mow.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2019, 01:06:53 pm »

If all 30 litres are in steel jerry cans, that's probably not legal. It seems from a quick goggle that you're allowed two steel cans (10 litres each) and two plastic (5 litres each).
https://www.lawnmowersdirect.co.uk/blog/news/petrol-cans-safe-storage/

I'm not sure that website has interpreted the law correctly.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1637/contents/made

Quote
SCHEDULE 2

Petrol Storage in Domestic or Other Relevant Premises

Requirements for keeping up to 30 litres of petrol in suitable portable containers or in a single demountable fuel tank

1.  A person keeps petrol in accordance with this paragraph if—

(a)no more than a total of 30 litres in suitable portable containers or in a single demountable fuel tank is kept, of which—
  (i)no more than 30 litres is kept in one or more suitable portable containers;
  (ii)no more than 30 litres is kept in one demountable fuel tank; or
  (iii)no more than 30 litres is kept in no more than two suitable portable containers in any motor vehicle, motor boat, hovercraft or aircraft;

(b)the storage place is—
  (i)within, above, below, attached to, or within the curtilage of a building (but, subject to paragraphs (ii) and (iii), not a flat or public building);
  (ii)below a flat;
  (iii)attached to a public building; or
  (iv)in a vehicle for the purpose of using it as fuel for any internal combustion engine;

(c)the storage place, where it is—
  (i)within a building, is fire-separated from the rest of the building and any exit route from the building; and
  (ii)above, below or attached to a building, is fire-separated from the building;

The need to store 30 litres of petrol when not using vehicles is highly questionable, but not necessarily illegal.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2019, 03:33:04 pm »

That lawnmower website has, I think, got the essentials right – the 30 litre limit, not keeping it in a dwelling, etc – but for some reason been overly cautious and prescriptive on the type of container. Perhaps because those are just the most common types of container used by lawnmowerists?

I only linked to it because it was the first site that came up in a quick search; I did edit my post to include a link to the official HSE rules. Broadgage's 30 litres do seem to be legal, as long as the building is subject to adequate ventilation etc. I do wonder what the local fire brigade and also the police, for different reasons, would say though!
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