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Author Topic: Storing petrol  (Read 7396 times)
broadgage
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« Reply #60 on: September 25, 2021, 03:01:02 pm »

All this talk Of storing petrol makes me think, that those who do need to be mindful of the fact that E10 which is now standard unleaded petrol does not last anywhere near as long as its predecessor when stored in any form of container, most noticeably when kept for longer periods in metal Jerrycans it releases water vapour, that leads to rusting of the inside of said cans and subsequent contamination of the stored fuel
Thought you might like to know !..

Indeed. It SHOULD be OK in military spec jerry cans as these are lined with an epoxy paint and said to be suitable not just for petrol, but also for anti freeze, methanol, ethanol, or drinking water.

However being of a cautious nature, I expect that future purchases will be of "Aspen 4" a synthetic alternative to traditional petrol which it is claimed keeps better.
There is a widely held and erroneous view that Aspen 4 is less of a fire risk and exempt from the storage rules applicable to traditional petrol.

https://aspenfuel.co.uk/ Link to supplier, I confirm that I have no connection with them.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
stuving
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« Reply #61 on: September 26, 2021, 01:23:25 pm »

I've been trying to find some real numbers for the various stages of road fuel storage, with mixed success. These are thus round numbers at best, for petrol+diesel supplied retail :

Daily volume from retail outlets: 100 M l
Number of retail sites:              8000
Number of vehicles:                 35-40 M
Average fuel tank size:             50 l

A big buried fuel tank these days is 30,000 l, and most sites will have at least two.
The overall volume stored is enough for six days (this is the least reliable of the numbers).

I'll assume car tanks are a bit less than half full and forecourt tanks about half on any given day.
So cars have 1000 M l of free fuel space in them
Fuel stations have 300 M l of fuel and of space

So it only takes one headline - even an entirely bogus one - to trigger a panic and at least local shortages.

At the supply end, there is a long-standing requirement (of national resilience) for refineries, import locations, and storage and distribution centres to hold around 60 days supply. This can be a mix of crude and refined products, but the buffer stock before distribution to retailers is certainly bigger than after it.

Petrol is the new toilet rolls!
« Last Edit: September 26, 2021, 02:03:32 pm by stuving » Logged
paul7575
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« Reply #62 on: September 26, 2021, 01:26:45 pm »


Petrol is the new toilet rolls!

Don’t try this at home though…

Paul
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Timmer
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« Reply #63 on: September 26, 2021, 01:51:17 pm »

Sigh, all so unnecessary but oh so predictable as we saw with the toilet roll fiasco. Drop a story out in the public domain, then stand back and watch them flock to whatever it is there is talk of shortage or supply issues.

Felt for those who really did need to fill up but were prevented from doing so by those with half/three quarters tanks full and worse those who had boot fulls of jerry cans. Petrol stations should have done more quicker to stop the fuel horders.

Now there is a problem that wasn’t there before Friday.
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broadgage
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« Reply #64 on: September 26, 2021, 04:54:35 pm »

Agree, I avoid hoarding or panic buying since others may thereby be deprived, and panic buying can be more expensive or entail more trouble than ordinary purchasing.

I do purchase prudent stocks, at ordinary prices, long before any panic or crisis.

I had hundreds of toilet rolls LONG BEFORE the great toilet roll panic.
I had the maximum lawful amount of petrol LONG BEFORE the last panic.

I have a large supply of logs BEFORE the next heating fuel panic.
I have half a ton of anthracite BEFORE the next panic.

Candles, paraffin, oil lamps and other supplies likewise.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #65 on: September 26, 2021, 05:01:58 pm »





I had hundreds of toilet rolls LONG BEFORE the great toilet roll panic.




That's an awful lot.

Was it a plan you had firmed up, or perhaps more based on a loose scenario?
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Clan Line
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« Reply #66 on: September 26, 2021, 06:22:01 pm »

Agree, I avoid hoarding or panic buying since others may thereby be deprived, and panic buying can be more expensive or entail more trouble than ordinary purchasing.

I do purchase prudent stocks, at ordinary prices, long before any panic or crisis.


Yes, of course we believe you   Wink Wink  (Do you have a red car ??)

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bignosemac
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« Reply #67 on: September 26, 2021, 06:23:11 pm »

Agree, I avoid hoarding or panic buying since others may thereby be deprived, and panic buying can be more expensive or entail more trouble than ordinary purchasing.

I do purchase prudent stocks, at ordinary prices, long before any panic or crisis.

I had hundreds of toilet rolls LONG BEFORE the great toilet roll panic.
I had the maximum lawful amount of petrol LONG BEFORE the last panic.

I have a large supply of logs BEFORE the next heating fuel panic.
I have half a ton of anthracite BEFORE the next panic.

Candles, paraffin, oil lamps and other supplies likewise.

Avoids hoarding, then goes on to list his hoard.

Does "BEFORE" change the definition of what is and isn't hoarding?
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There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist. - Sir Terry Pratchett
broadgage
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« Reply #68 on: September 27, 2021, 01:18:59 am »

Yes in my view, the time and circumstances of purchase DO determine the difference between sensible bulk purchasing and hoarding.
To purchase larger than normal volumes of anything that is in short supply (or clearly about to be in short supply) could reasonably be considered hoarding as others are thereby deprived. So doing might be illegal in time of war or other major emergency, and whilst not illegal under present circumstances is anti social.

To obtain large stocks whilst times are normal is sensible pre-planning and hurts nobody. Toilet rolls, and many other goods are cheaper in bulk packs and money may be saved thereby.
It could even be argued, that by use of my pre-existing stocks, rather than buying even "normal" numbers of toilet rolls during the shortage was indirectly helping others. The six pack NOT purchased by me, remained on the shelf for someone else to purchase.

Similar arguments apply to other goods. Including candles, long life foods, batteries, blankets and long underwear.
I have reduced stocks of batteries in the last ten years because modern LED torches and lanterns give a better light for longer than the old incandescent types.
(incandescent torch with 4 D cells, and a 4.8 volt 0.75 amp bulb runs for about 12 to 15 hours on one set of batteries. If fitted with a decent LED bulb, the light is better and the run time as long as 80 hours.)

I also keep a stock of very low consumption incandescent torch bulbs, these give a miserable light, but better than no light, and economise on batteries. A 2.7 volt, 0.15 amp bulb on two alkaline D cells will give over 100 hours service, and the light is sufficient for indoor use.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
bignosemac
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« Reply #69 on: September 27, 2021, 04:55:26 am »

Just remember when buying candles, if you need four, it's better to ask for, "three, plus one more" in the hardware store, to avoid confusion.
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There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist. - Sir Terry Pratchett
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #70 on: September 27, 2021, 06:59:18 am »

Just remember when buying candles, if you need four, it's better to ask for, "three, plus one more" in the hardware store, to avoid confusion.

No need to worry - there's a cupboard full of fork handles too - just in case!  Smiley
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broadgage
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« Reply #71 on: September 27, 2021, 01:51:50 pm »

To avoid any confusion, I would stock candles in cartons of 50 or more and not in any smaller packs.
Some spare forks might be advisable, complete ones not just the handles! a fairly low priority though, remembering that fingers were invented before forks.
Disposable cutlery can be useful for emergencies in case water or fuel for heating washing up water is in short supply.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
bignosemac
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« Reply #72 on: September 27, 2021, 02:10:20 pm »

remembering that fingers were invented before forks.

Disposable cutlery can be useful for emergencies...

It's a bit hard to turn over your vegetable patch with your fingers!

Disposable cutlery should be avoided too, unless biodegradable/compostable.
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There is a rumour going around that I have found God. I think this is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist. - Sir Terry Pratchett
Ralph Ayres
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« Reply #73 on: September 27, 2021, 02:25:34 pm »


I also keep a stock of very low consumption incandescent torch bulbs, these give a miserable light, but better than no light, and economise on batteries. A 2.7 volt, 0.15 amp bulb on two alkaline D cells will give over 100 hours service, and the light is sufficient for indoor use.

I'd recommend switching to an LED lamp.  Choose the right one and you'd get decent light levels for that 100 hours, or a miserable light virtually for ever on a couple of D-size.
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broadgage
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« Reply #74 on: September 27, 2021, 04:50:22 pm »

remembering that fingers were invented before forks.

Disposable cutlery can be useful for emergencies...

It's a bit hard to turn over your vegetable patch with your fingers!

Disposable cutlery should be avoided too, unless biodegradable/compostable.

I have an existing stash of disposable plastic cutlery for emergencies. The environmental  harm from manufacture has already been done, and nothing is to be gained by discarding the items unused.
I do not intend to buy any more plastic cutlery, any future purchases will be the biodegradable wood sort.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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