Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum
 
Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here].
Register and contribute [here] - it's free.
Press - friend or foe? - [here]
 today - West Wilts RUG AGM - B-o-A
today - Somerset Climate Change Survey
28/02/2020 - Greta Thunberg in Bristol
01/03/2020 - Railfuture Awards - last day
02/03/2020 - TravelWatch SouthWest
02/03/2020 - Community Rail Conference
Random Image
Train Running @GWR Twitter Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail news GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4 Chat on off
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
February 25, 2020, 02:46:53 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[76] Walking Britain's Lost Railways
[56] Friday 28th February 2020 - Greta Thunberg in Bristol.
[53] Toilets on local trains - Liverpool discussion
[50] Parry people mover for Pen Mill To Yeovil Junction tains
[49] Landslip between Salisbury and Romsey
[41] General Information - London to Swindon and Bristol (2.2020 re...
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Effective fare changes resulting from timetable changes in December  (Read 5218 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 28173



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2019, 10:17:20 am »

For many of us who use trains at about that time (e.g. from Swindon) there will be incredulity that anyone boarding a London bound train between 07:00 and 09:00 would ever expect it to be anything other than a peak train. 

Indeed ... the historic differences from Network South East area (which includes Hereford via Evesham and Exeter via Axminster, but not Swindon) to areas outside, and the special cases / easements brought about by gaps in the timetable (up to 4 hours in places) have lead to some situations where those at stations with limited service have got some very attractive fares at the peak shoulder.  Logic suggests that with 76% of train times changing (GWR data) and gaps such as the 4 hours reduced to 2, some rethink of the special cases is appropriate.  Which is not to say it won't be a very serious issue to people who are regular users of the fare / time combos that have been attractive purely because there were no other available trains.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10196


View Profile Email
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2019, 10:21:00 am »

Indeed ... the historic differences from Network South East area (which includes Hereford via Evesham and Exeter via Axminster, but not Swindon)

Small correction - I believe Hereford wasn't in the NSE area - Worcester Stations was the extremity of the NSE area at that end of the COtswold Line - hence the Network Card being valid only to those stations and not beyond.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 28173



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2019, 10:44:58 am »

Indeed ... the historic differences from Network South East area (which includes Hereford via Evesham and Exeter via Axminster, but not Swindon)

Small correction - I believe Hereford wasn't in the NSE area - Worcester Stations was the extremity of the NSE area at that end of the COtswold Line - hence the Network Card being valid only to those stations and not beyond.

Thanks for that, Chris ... I must have got confused between the limits of NSE and the limits of working of class 165/166 which (in those days) were the Paddington suburban trains.  Wink
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
Richard Fairhurst
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 865


View Profile Email
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2019, 10:52:14 am »

For many of us who use trains at about that time (e.g. from Swindon) there will be incredulity that anyone boarding a London bound train between 07:00 and 09:00 would ever expect it to be anything other than a peak train. 

As alluded upthread, the sparse (and slower) service was historically the reason. The 08.30ish from Charlbury would get you into Paddington at 10.00, as would an 09.00 departure from Swindon. But whereas in Swindon you'd typically have to wait a few minutes for a subsequent IC125 on which off-peak tickets were valid, on the Cotswold Line it would typically have been well over an hour, and that for a Turbo.

To be honest, given the existence of the 09.10 - which was indeed the reason GWR gave us at a recent Charlbury Town Council meeting - I'm a lot less exercised by this than by the evening peak changes in 2015. Indeed, the 18.22 ex-Pad being retimed to 18.52 is good from a fares point of view. I suspect the bleeding to Chiltern will continue, though.
Logged
didcotdean
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1184


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2019, 11:16:15 am »

Indeed ... the historic differences from Network South East area (which includes Hereford via Evesham and Exeter via Axminster, but not Swindon)

Small correction - I believe Hereford wasn't in the NSE area - Worcester Stations was the extremity of the NSE area at that end of the COtswold Line - hence the Network Card being valid only to those stations and not beyond.

Thanks for that, Chris ... I must have got confused between the limits of NSE and the limits of working of class 165/166 which (in those days) were the Paddington suburban trains.  Wink
The Network Card boundary was extended out from Oxford to Worcester on 28 May 1995. I think this was to reflect that through turbo services had become the norm by then.
Logged
hoover50
Full Member
***
Posts: 73


Class 50 at Swindon


View Profile Email
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2019, 01:24:41 pm »

It seems the GWR timetable change in December is descending into a complete farce. Let's hope GWR sorts it out as lost of people in Pewsey are getting very angry about this.

...and it's not just Pewsey passengers getting angry. Looks like similar issues will affect passengers from Bedwyn, Hungerford, Kintbury, etc.
Logged
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4960


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2019, 05:49:26 pm »

Interesting view from a local;

Surprised?
Its obvious people use this service at these times who drive from the towns and cities to get the cheaper fare, it was never going to last for ever.
I frequently use Bedwyn, Hungerford and Kintbury car parks and they are full daily of commuters who drive to the station to get the cheap London fares.
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3037



View Profile
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2019, 11:05:56 pm »

Another success for my crystal ball ?
Years ago, before the IETs entered service, there was considerable speculation and discussion on these forums as to how these hugely expensive trains would be paid for.
Some forecast that substantial fare increases would be imposed in order to pay for the "improved" trains whilst other pointed to an official statement that stated that no increases in regulated fares would be imposed beyond the normal slightly above inflation rate.

I forecast that "headline" fare increases would indeed be modest and limited to only slightly above the inflation rate.
But I also forecast "hidden fare increases" would be achieved by careful adjustments to charge peak time fares for journeys previously considered to be off peak.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
bignosemac
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 17229


Coffee Shop Forum Roving Reporter


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2019, 11:49:57 pm »

Interesting view from a local;

Surprised?
Its obvious people use this service at these times who drive from the towns and cities to get the cheaper fare, it was never going to last for ever.
I frequently use Bedwyn, Hungerford and Kintbury car parks and they are full daily of commuters who drive to the station to get the cheap London fares.


And yet, on the three occasions I've driven to Bedwyn in recent months, to catch an Off Peak service, I've had no problem parking. The hordes of commuters have kindly left a few spaces.
Logged

IndustryInsider
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 7935


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2019, 05:03:06 pm »

Another success for my crystal ball ?
Years ago, before the IETs entered service, there was considerable speculation and discussion on these forums as to how these hugely expensive trains would be paid for.
Some forecast that substantial fare increases would be imposed in order to pay for the "improved" trains whilst other pointed to an official statement that stated that no increases in regulated fares would be imposed beyond the normal slightly above inflation rate.

I forecast that "headline" fare increases would indeed be modest and limited to only slightly above the inflation rate.
But I also forecast "hidden fare increases" would be achieved by careful adjustments to charge peak time fares for journeys previously considered to be off peak.

I don't remember anyone disagreeing with that possibility - like car park charges it's an excellent way of getting in more money but not being in breach of any regulated fares rulings.

Tell me, do you predict the same will happen for other stations over time?

I ask, because checking the fares and restrictions for some of the biggest hitters on the GWR network, namely Cardiff Central, Bristol TM, Bath Spa and Swindon, there is a general improvement on when off-peak and super off-peak fares become valid from December when compared with now. 

Listing the arrival times (as they are more relevant than the departure times):
Cardiff:   First off-peak arrival is 10:37 now, and becomes 10:12 from December.  First super off-peak arrival is 12:00 now, and becomes 11:39 in December.
Bristol TM/Bath Spa/Swindon:  First off-peak arrival is 10:14 now, and becomes 10:07 from December.  First super off-peak arrival is 11:39 now, and becomes 11:37 in December.

I would have thought changes at those stations would have a much bigger impact than at smaller stations such as Charlbury, Pewsey and Bedwyn?
Logged

To view my GWML Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 28173



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2019, 07:11:10 am »

Adding a further case to the list ...

At present, on a Monday to Friday, there are three through trains from London Paddington to Paignton.   Currently off Paddington at 07:03, 10:33 and 17:33, walk up singles cost 114.00 on the first and last trains (any time) and 56.60 on the 10:33, super off peak, journey time 3 hours 18 minutes.

From 16th December 2019, on a Monday to Friday, there will be three through trains from London Paddington to Paignton.   The will leave Paddington at 07:04, 09:37 and 17:37, walk up singles cost 114.00 on the first and last trains (any time) and 78.10 on the 09:37, off peak, journey time 3 hours 12 minutes.

On a (sample) date, 19th December, an advance fare is available on the 09:37 at 31.50.

Paignton (and the rest of Torbay) are one of the major visitor destinations for short breaks and conferences in the UK and I will (readers may argue) suggest that there's going to be a lot of people travelling there who have a strong preference for the through train (with all their luggage?).  Yes, walk up super off peak will still be available from London at (example) 11:04 with a change at Exeter St Davids.   The timing (09:37 v 10:33 v 11:04) probably makes very little difference to the passenger group I have describes, and the journey time (between 3 hours 10 and 3 hours 20 minutes) is probably not a key element in them choosing the train.  They would be unlikely to want to travel on the 07:04 (too early from London) or 17:37 (too late into Paignton)
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
clunfarm
Newbie
*
Posts: 2


View Profile Email
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2020, 11:38:46 am »

Late to the party here, but just noticed this. I travel weekly Monday morning CRV-HFD-(EVE)-PAD (which has been off-peak using the 0642 HFD-PAD train) and return Friday off-peak (PAD-NWP-CRV).

With the changes in GWR fare restrictions I now seem to face a >130% increase in cost of my weekly commute, from 101.30 to 237.60. I appreciate it may be considered an anomaly that the 0642 was off peak in the past, but considering how much slower it was than the journey from HFD to London via NWP it seemed reasonable that there was a difference in fare.

It looks like it may now be slightly cheaper to travel with Avanti West Coast via Crewe (and at least they seem to have some advance ticket availability), so it looks like this change will be self-defeating from GWR's perspective, at least in my case.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 28173



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2020, 12:32:04 pm »

Welcome to the forum, Clunfarm

A (very) quick look at fares ... Singles from Craven Arms to Worcester Foregate Street and back, period (not day) return from there to Oxford and single Oxford to Paddington (peak) and back (off peak) add up - but subject to checking - at 153.50, valid for your trains.    Still more than the 103.00, but far less than the 237.60.

Split ticketing is allowed provided that you catch a train which actually stops at the stations where you change from one ticket to the next - for that reason I have NOT checked a Didcot split as that would slow you down.

I also noticed a very interesting anytime period return 111.40 fare Craven Arms to London via Warminster and Salisbury!

Avanti are getting some stick on Twitter over prices - "same trains - all that's changed is the price" was a comment I saw a few hours back - before you posted and it's rolled off my feed by now, but I think it came from an MP.    From Avanti

Quote
Avanti West Coast
@AvantiWestCoast
Jan 3
Replying to  @deepdowndirtypr and @grantshapps
The trains are exactly the same ones as when Virgin were in charge of the network. Advance fares are still available and are set at the same prices as they were previously, although a 50p increase has happened as per the new year increase across all operators ^MB

But what that makes no mention of is any change in quotas ... where Virgin sold (say) 20 at a certain good price on a particular train, we aren't told if Avanti are selling 5, 20 or 50 at that price.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
Oxonhutch
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 738



View Profile
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2020, 12:52:57 pm »

Splitting at Oxford, there are Advances into Paddington available on your current trains during the peak between 20 and 25 each way
Logged
clunfarm
Newbie
*
Posts: 2


View Profile Email
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2020, 02:37:41 pm »

A (very) quick look at fares ... Singles from Craven Arms to Worcester Foregate Street and back, period (not day) return from there to Oxford and single Oxford to Paddington (peak) and back (off peak) add up - but subject to checking - at 153.50, valid for your trains.    Still more than the 103.00, but far less than the 237.60.
Thank you for that help with split ticketing - will play with that more at the weekend. That's a big improvement and 20 better than I was getting with Avanti. Realistically I would like to keep my return as PAD-NWP-CRV so I get home for dinner on a Friday.

I also noticed a very interesting anytime period return 111.40 fare Craven Arms to London via Warminster and Salisbury!
It's indeed an attractive fare, but at 5hr 25m for a journey that can be done in 3hr 15m it means it is only for the time-rich (which sadly I am not, yet)!
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page