Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 02:35 19 Mar 2024
- Potholes leave nations' roads at 'breaking point'
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 tomorrow - WWRUG AGM
23/03/24 - Trains restart - Minehead
02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber

No 'On This Day' events reported for 19th Mar

Train RunningNo cancellations or delays
PollsOpen and recent polls
Open to 25/03 16:00 Easter Escape - to where?
Closed 2024-03-16 Should our rail network go cashless
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 19, 2024, 02:47:39 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[99] Where would you recommend for an Easter Escape?
[99] More travels ... more looking at how others do it ...
[95] M25 motorway issue: a most illuminating Twitter thread.
[80] Briefing on forthcoming changes - from GWR on 14.3.2024
[51] Europeran Rail Timetable
[51] Improvements at three Berkshire stations
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: On crossing borders by public transport - to and within the UK contrasted  (Read 1943 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40644



View Profile WWW Email
« on: October 13, 2019, 09:21:42 »

Thursday afternoon I rode the "Enterprise" from Dublin in the Irish Republic to Belfast in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.  Just a routine ticket check on the train, and I could have been unidentified if I had bought awalk up ticket with cash.

Thursday night, I rode a ferry within the United Kingdom from Belfast to Liverpool, and all passengers were required on arrival in Liverpool to present photo ID to police officers prior to catching the bus on to Hamilton Square (Birkenhead).  The officer I spoke with took a particular interest in my 2016 Saudi Visa and was asking me all sorts of questions about what I had been doing in Saudi those years ago, and in Belfast the previous day.

Does it strike anyone else as a bit odd that I can make an international journey without ID, but then be subjected to quite a strong (though friendly in how it was done) questioning of who I am and what I'm doing on a domestic journey?  Although there's all sorts of discussions going on about the relationship between Ireland, and the United Kingdom (including Northern Ireland) after 31st October, it strikes me that there is already, "de facto" a border within the UK (United Kingdom).
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1145


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2019, 11:14:37 »

Under the terms of the Common Travel Area you don't (currently - we'll have to see what the 'erberts come back from Brussels with...) need a passport to travel to Ireland, so I never take mine. I would have shown 'em my buss pass, and the Saudi Embassy don't stamp visas on bus passes...

Of course, it might nave been that beard!  Grin
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2019, 11:53:53 »

The Ireland-UK (United Kingdom) common travel area dates back to 1922 so should, but of course that doesn't mean it will, survive whatever happens Brexitwise.

What checks were there when you arrived at Dublin?
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
didcotdean
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1424


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2019, 12:17:45 »

I remember someone at security at Belfast City Airport getting quite testy with me after asking me for picture ID (he actually initially asked first for a passport) and my reply was I didn't have any on me. My airline to London didn't require one to travel and my driving licence is a battered sheet of pink paper.
Logged
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5180


There are some who call me... Tim


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2019, 13:42:42 »

I remember being stopped a number of times coming back from Dublin to Holyhead in the 80s and 90s. I came to the conclusion that it was either my long hair or my rucksack that made them single me out. The officials always seemed much more friendly going the other way.

A few years ago, when we drove north from Washington State into British Columbia, a rather humourless Canadian border official was very keen to know if we has any guns, rocket launchers or other ordnance in the car. On the way back, a much more friendly US official simply asked whether we had any soft fruit. It's a funny old world. 
Logged

Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40644



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2019, 15:57:28 »

The Ireland-UK (United Kingdom) common travel area dates back to 1922 so should, but of course that doesn't mean it will, survive whatever happens Brexitwise.

What checks were there when you arrived at Dublin?

A very quick glance at my passport - everyone passed at a couple of seconds each.   

Quite surprising what they do between these parts of the United Kingdom - I can't imagine everyone would be happy if they checked everyone's ID travelling from Pilining to Severn Tunnel Junction Severn Tunnel Junction to Pilning, let alone on Cardiff to Holyhead services four times as the train goes in and out of Wales!
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
Oxonhutch
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1240



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2019, 16:50:48 »

A few years ago, when we drove north from Washington State into British Columbia, a rather humourless Canadian border official was very keen to know if we has any guns, rocket launchers or other ordnance in the car. On the way back, a much more friendly US official simply asked whether we had any soft fruit. It's a funny old world. 

My Canadian colleagues remind me that Canada retains the "Right to arm bears"!
Logged
Noggin
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 508


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2019, 18:54:40 »

Does it strike anyone else as a bit odd that I can make an international journey without ID, but then be subjected to quite a strong (though friendly in how it was done) questioning of who I am and what I'm doing on a domestic journey?  Although there's all sorts of discussions going on about the relationship between Ireland, and the United Kingdom (including Northern Ireland) after 31st October, it strikes me that there is already, "de facto" a border within the UK (United Kingdom).

Not odd, but yes, as a result of the free-movement area between the UK and Eire, N Ireland to Scotland will inevitably attract closer scrutiny than say, the Isle of Wight ferry, thought not a border by any means.   

I think you're conflating checks on the right to cross a border (or leave a country for that matter), with checks on why you might be crossing that border, and whether you pose a threat to the means of transport.

In the case of the Enterprise train, the UK and Eire have little interest in checking you - if you have dubious intentions then there are 1001 ways that you can get yourself, or any dodgy materials across the border. But when it comes to crossing the Irish Sea, then your options are more limited, so it's worth the security services keeping a closer look.

I don't think it's necessarily an unusual situation, I seem to recall that the Spanish are fairly keen to vett domestic AVE travellers



 
Logged
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5180


There are some who call me... Tim


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2019, 21:15:58 »

My Canadian colleagues remind me that Canada retains the "Right to arm bears"!

...not to be confused with being given permission to wear just a vest, otherwise known as the 'right to bare arms'.
Logged

Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40644



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2019, 22:29:45 »

... if you have dubious intentions then there are 1001 ways that you can get yourself, or any dodgy materials across the border ...

You really got me thinking, and Western Pathfinder probably wonders along similar lines.



More seriously

Quote
But when it comes to crossing the Irish Sea, then your options are more limited, so it's worth the security services keeping a closer look.

Totally understood - though I look at police powers to stop someone and ask questions (which they have) and wonder what they would do if I had exercised my right (as I understand it) simply to walk on / refuse to answer.  It was nicely done, but I really wonder ...
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
Western Pathfinder
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1524



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2019, 23:05:10 »

I have been known to ponder....
Logged
CyclingSid
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1912


Hockley viaduct


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2019, 06:59:05 »

Graham, it is the beard problem. They assume that you might have odd political connections, even more so if you are wearing socks and sandals!
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2019, 09:12:19 »

Elsewhere, I've heard of people having pen knives confiscated on Portsmouth ferries. This doesn't seem to happen on Dover ferries so is presumably down to ferry company policy. Then there was the case a few years ago of a terrorist gun attack on Eurostar, thwarted thank goodness but only by luck, which shows both the need for and the futility of checks there. But if you wanted to transport weapons from Ireland to Britain, or vice versa, small boat might be the way, as with drugs.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
Bob_Blakey
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 777


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2019, 12:48:31 »

The UK (United Kingdom)-Eire Common Travel Area must certainly lead to a few anomalies. I have travelled by plane between Bristol/Birmingham & Dublin a number of times recently when going to european rugby matches. My passport invariably gets a quick check on arrival in Dublin, very rarely on the return except by the airline on departure.. SWTSMBO (She Who Thinks She Must Be Obeyed) is a UK PR (Public Relations) who travels on her Singapore passport (although the 'Leave to Remain' stamp is in an old passport which is no longer used). Likewise it gets checked by Irish immigration but not when we return to the UK. On only one occasion have airline staff properly verified that Singaporeans are permitted to enter the UK visa-free.

More holes than a Swiss cheese.     
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page