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Author Topic: More overcrowding on Cross Country Voyagers while HSTs sit in store  (Read 2137 times)
broadgage
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« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2019, 11:53:59 am »

And we need to remember that "compliance" is a moving target. Standards are ever increasing.
Voyagers are compliant NOW but may not remain so.
Even IETs will probably be no longer compliant in say 25 years when re use is being considered.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
stuving
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« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2019, 06:04:39 pm »

...  Even most modern trains are not level with platforms (although I've read that the new ones in East Anglia are, which makes me wonder why it isn't a requirement for new stock), so some assistance is needed in getting on and off come what may.

Up to now, the whole industry seems to have judged that "too hard" and not really tried to do it. But now Stadler have taken it seriously, so their FLIRT trains for GA do offer level boarding. This involves a number of factors, all specific to the UK.

The British gauge has evolved with platforms high enough and coming far enough out for one step up into the train, and as a result it is narrower at platform height and below (unlike continental ones). The floor has to be above platform height for this to work - but at least that allows for level floors throughout the train and enough space for bogies underneath - just. Lower continental platforms can be level with the floor downstairs on double-deckers, or between bogies, but you need steps or steep ramps to get between cars (and upstairs, obviously).

Stadler have shaved the floor depth over the bogies (shared or Jacobs ones for FLIRT) enough to get the whole floor level, and to match platform heights*. It has to be narrower at floor level than other trains, and to fill the gap there is a motorised gap-filler (not really a ramp or a step as it's level!). For the bimodes, the engines now can't fit under the floor, so they go in a dedicated short semivehicle, but that brings the advantage of not distorting the engine/cooling systems to fit a shallow space.

Obviously that gap-filler, being mechanical, can fail - we'll have to see about that. And it does still leave a small gap, rather than pushing out until it meets the platform edge. But Stadler, being Swiss, come with a reputation for engineering quality even higher than the Japanese - and have not just set up a factory here from scratch - so we'll see! And we'll also see how much this alters thinking for other train procurements or designs; will everyone want ones like this? It would certainly push the balance between new build and rebuild even further towards the former.

For more on this, there's an informative PR video here from Railway Gazette International, and another of Geoff Marshall having a go on one - he's quite a fan.

*I'm still not 100% sure of either, as platform heights do vary, and there appear to be steps in the floor but I think only right at the ends and under the seats over the wheels.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2019, 07:05:44 pm »


Stadler have shaved the floor depth over the bogies (shared or Jacobs ones for FLIRT) enough to get the whole floor level, and to match platform heights*. It has to be narrower at floor level than other trains, and to fill the gap there is a motorised gap-filler (not really a ramp or a step as it's level!). For the bimodes, the engines now can't fit under the floor, so they go in a dedicated short semivehicle, but that brings the advantage of not distorting the engine/cooling systems to fit a shallow space.

Obviously that gap-filler, being mechanical, can fail - we'll have to see about that. And it does still leave a small gap, rather than pushing out until it meets the platform edge. But Stadler, being Swiss, come with a reputation for engineering quality even higher than the Japanese - and have not just set up a factory here from scratch - so we'll see!

Stadler though do have factories in countries other than Switzerland.

The regional Stadler FLIRT Class 755s for Greater Anglia are largely being constructed in Hungary, Poland and Spain.
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charles_uk
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« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2019, 02:42:11 pm »

Did Reading to Oxford yesterday morning on a Manchester train. Absolutely rammed four car. That full the the TM got off at Oxford to use the station toilet.

As a (rather belated) aside, these are the services GWR/Network Rail are expecting customers travelling from Reading to Oxford and the north Cotswolds to use in the evening peak when the December timetable comes into operation.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2019, 05:32:52 pm »

Just watched the Geoff Marshall FLIRT video. It could totally overthrow our understanding of "Normal for Norfolk"!
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Day return to Infinity, please.
Timmer
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« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2019, 05:51:11 pm »

As a (rather belated) aside, these are the services GWR/Network Rail are expecting customers travelling from Reading to Oxford and the north Cotswolds to use in the evening peak when the December timetable comes into operation.
Indeed, there’s been a somewhat robust discussion about this on RailUK Forums. The evening peak Reading stops were in the original draft timetable but got pulled when the final timetable was produced.
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Celestial
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« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2019, 06:04:28 pm »

Good news though. A set of HST coaches is moving to Wales tomorrow.  Oh, hang on a minute, it's going to be scrapped.  Angry

https://twitter.com/Clinnick1/status/1197173390861320192
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charles_uk
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« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2019, 06:09:25 pm »

As a (rather belated) aside, these are the services GWR/Network Rail are expecting customers travelling from Reading to Oxford and the north Cotswolds to use in the evening peak when the December timetable comes into operation.
Indeed, there’s been a somewhat robust discussion about this on RailUK Forums. The evening peak Reading stops were in the original draft timetable but got pulled when the final timetable was produced.


I have been following that particular thread. Irrespective of the many winners v a few "niche" losers argument, I'm amazed that some are still seriously suggesting that the existing Cross Country service is a perfectly acceptable alternative to the lost GWR connections.
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eightonedee
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« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2019, 08:05:10 pm »

I'm afraid this is an example of where London-centric thinking does seem to be applied. Someone needs to look at the numbers of passengers into Reading (I understand more commute into Reading than from Reading, but don't know how this has been determined) not all of which are short distance Thames Valley/North Downs/Kennet Valley/SWT traffic.
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