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Author Topic: Elizabeth Line - ongoing discussion  (Read 43636 times)
Reading General
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« Reply #210 on: May 25, 2022, 03:55:13 pm »


... Some of the vox pops on the TV item still don't seem to realise that it takes an hour to get from Reading to Paddington, yet the reporter said that when Crossrail was fully open it would be possible to get from Reading to Central London in under an hour...

The thought  occurs that since the 1970s and the introduction of HSTs (High Speed Train) it's been possible to get from Reading to Central London within an hour: 25 minutes to Paddington; 10-minutes walk and wait for Tube; 15 minutes to Oxford Circus.

Not sure if the journey time has differed that much in the time but the Bakerloo line timetable suggests 8 minutes journey time on the train to Oxford Circus underground from Paddington underground. Obviously leaving the station takes a bit of time has the platforms at Oxford Circus seem to be half way down Regent Street towards Piccadilly. Which does make me wonder whether you could just fool people into walking large distances in underground tunnels instead of running trains. Anyone who’s ever used the lie of a tube entrance for South Kensington station on exhibition road by imperial college.
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didcotdean
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« Reply #211 on: May 25, 2022, 04:12:09 pm »

With the planned full service in the peak there would be two services to/from Reading that would make just five intermediate stops (Twyford, Maidenhead, Slough, West Drayton and Ealing Broadway). Although at around a 20 minute time disadvantage to Paddington compared with the non stop services, some might decide not having to change for their onward journey to be worth it. How many remains to be seen.
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TonyK
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« Reply #212 on: May 25, 2022, 05:14:10 pm »

With the planned full service in the peak there would be two services to/from Reading that would make just five intermediate stops (Twyford, Maidenhead, Slough, West Drayton and Ealing Broadway). Although at around a 20 minute time disadvantage to Paddington compared with the non stop services, some might decide not having to change for their onward journey to be worth it. How many remains to be seen.

I think a lot will, especially as the chance of a seat is high if you are staying on past Paddington. A lot of passengers will be getting off there for destinations other than Reading. You don't have to get off and board another train, which may cost you that time advantage if the second train doesn't leave within moments of you getting to the platform.
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paul7575
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« Reply #213 on: May 25, 2022, 07:19:36 pm »

…Which does make me wonder whether you could just fool people into walking large distances in underground tunnels instead of running trains. Anyone who’s ever used the lie of a tube entrance for South Kensington station on exhibition road by imperial college.
Ah, I did wonder why the original Tyne (pedestrian) Tunnel didn’t have any trains in it…  Grin
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stuving
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« Reply #214 on: May 25, 2022, 07:40:26 pm »

…Which does make me wonder whether you could just fool people into walking large distances in underground tunnels instead of running trains. Anyone who’s ever used the lie of a tube entrance for South Kensington station on exhibition road by imperial college.
Ah, I did wonder why the original Tyne (pedestrian) Tunnel didn’t have any trains in it…  Grin

I do remember my Dad saying, as something commonly said earlier (i.e. 30s-50s), that having half of their passengers walking through a tunnel was how the Underground managed to cope with such large numbers.
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Reading General
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« Reply #215 on: May 25, 2022, 07:49:24 pm »

Many don’t seem to notice how far they walk underground without landmarks, they do just follow the signs and the crowd. The same is true of how far people are willing to walk indoors in a shopping centre perhaps, or inside the barriers of stations. If you get off the last coach of a ten coach southern electric train at Reading the barriers are further away than Friar Street is from the same barriers.
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« Reply #216 on: May 25, 2022, 09:30:42 pm »

The Evening Standard have noticed that a contactless journey from Reading to Tottenham Court Road is cheaper if you tap out then in again at Slough.

From London Evening Standard
Quote
A peak time trip from Reading to Tottenham Court Road costs £28.50 for an adult tapping in and out using a contactless card, according to Transport for London’s Fare Finder.

However, a trip from Reading to Slough costs just £5.90 while Slough to Tottenham Court Road costs £11.80.

The loophole exists as prices switch between Transport for London (TfL» (Transport for London - about)) fares and National Rail fares at stations further outside the capital, according to the Telegraph.

This allows commuters to make a saving of £10.80 if they choose to tap in and out at Slough rather than travel directly from Reading.
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« Reply #217 on: May 26, 2022, 06:17:19 am »

The Evening Standard have noticed that a contactless journey from Reading to Tottenham Court Road is cheaper if you tap out then in again at Slough.

From London Evening Standard
Quote
A peak time trip from Reading to Tottenham Court Road costs £28.50 for an adult tapping in and out using a contactless card, according to Transport for London’s Fare Finder.

However, a trip from Reading to Slough costs just £5.90 while Slough to Tottenham Court Road costs £11.80.

The loophole exists as prices switch between Transport for London (TfL» (Transport for London - about)) fares and National Rail fares at stations further outside the capital, according to the Telegraph.

This allows commuters to make a saving of £10.80 if they choose to tap in and out at Slough rather than travel directly from Reading.

It would mean a much much slower journey, there would not be enough time at Slough to get off of a train from Reading tap out allow the system to time out (anti fraud) and then get back on the same train, I guess for sum the the saving of £10.80 would be worth it
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #218 on: May 26, 2022, 06:49:35 am »

The Evening Standard have noticed that a contactless journey from Reading to Tottenham Court Road is cheaper if you tap out then in again at Slough.

From London Evening Standard
Quote
A peak time trip from Reading to Tottenham Court Road costs £28.50 for an adult tapping in and out using a contactless card, according to Transport for London’s Fare Finder.

However, a trip from Reading to Slough costs just £5.90 while Slough to Tottenham Court Road costs £11.80.

The loophole exists as prices switch between Transport for London (TfL» (Transport for London - about)) fares and National Rail fares at stations further outside the capital, according to the Telegraph.

This allows commuters to make a saving of £10.80 if they choose to tap in and out at Slough rather than travel directly from Reading.

It would mean a much much slower journey, there would not be enough time at Slough to get off of a train from Reading tap out allow the system to time out (anti fraud) and then get back on the same train, I guess for sum the the saving of £10.80 would be worth it

Given the frequency of the services it need only be about 20 mins slower - leave a bit earlier, get off at Slough, nip over the road to Starbucks and get a coffee, stroll back over to the station, tap back in and get on the train - for anyone who still commutes daily that's saving you £54 a week, well worth it!
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Reading General
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« Reply #219 on: May 26, 2022, 06:55:57 am »

What a ridiculous rail system we have where stuff like this exists. High prices for those who don’t individually do the research. It’s 2022.
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« Reply #220 on: May 26, 2022, 07:02:01 am »

- for anyone who still commutes daily that's saving you £54 a week, well worth it!
Well, less the cost of the LARGE coffee (in my case, PLUS a roll of some sorts)  Wink

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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #221 on: May 26, 2022, 07:20:40 am »

- for anyone who still commutes daily that's saving you £54 a week, well worth it!
Well, less the cost of the LARGE coffee (in my case, PLUS a roll of some sorts)  Wink



A forward roll will cost you nothing, but put the coffee down first, and being Slough, best check for unpleasant surprises on the pavement.
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stuving
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« Reply #222 on: May 26, 2022, 11:33:34 am »

What a ridiculous rail system we have where stuff like this exists. High prices for those who don’t individually do the research. It’s 2022.

This just reflects the way GWR (Great Western Railway) pricing has been for years. Contactless fares for the bit outwards of Paddington (which is most of the cost here) have been set at half the equivalent day return fare. For Reading-Paddington you can split at Slough: £11.80+£18.60 vs. £52.10 (anytime) saving £21.70. In this case you don't even need to get off!
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paul7575
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« Reply #223 on: May 26, 2022, 11:37:29 am »

What a ridiculous rail system we have where stuff like this exists. High prices for those who don’t individually do the research. It’s 2022.

This just reflects the way GWR (Great Western Railway) pricing has been for years. Contactless fares for the bit outwards of Paddington (which is most of the cost here) have been set at half the equivalent day return fare. For Reading-Paddington you can split at Slough: £11.80+£18.60 vs. £52.10 (anytime) saving £21.70. In this case you don't even need to get off!
The media reporting seems intended to make out this is a new issue just this week, like the earlier misleading reports about Reading now being on the tube map…
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #224 on: May 26, 2022, 12:31:45 pm »

I missed the opening day frenzy, but took a good look at the Elizabeth Line yesterday which was an overwhelmingly positive experience.  I thought I’d share my observations and thoughts.

I thought I’d also compare what the same journey experience through from Reading would have been like had I made the same journey a decade or so ago.  There is a lot of focus on when things go wrong, or where the service has become worse, than on the significant number of changes, both big and small, that have been made for the better which might have been forgotten about.

So, I set off from Reading late morning on a 9-car IET (Intercity Express Train) in electric mode that had come up from Cornwall.  Plenty of seats available towards the back, though the front looked a bit cosy.  Naturally I didn’t want to rely on a trolley service, which didn’t materialise, so had brought my coffee from the outlet on the platform.

A decade ago this would have been on a diesel powered HST (High Speed Train) and would have had a buffet car of course.  Though I suspect it would have been closed by the time I boarded for the final leg into Paddington and if it had of been open, by the time I’d walked to it and made my purchase there wouldn’t have been time to drink it anyway!

A decade ago the route from outside the station to platform would have been via the old cramped concourse and overbridge, which seemed busy even at the quiet times.


Arrival at Paddington was at Platform 3 and after heading down to the new Elizabeth Line station you’re immediately hit with how spacious and accessible everything is and how much safer the platform edge doors make things.  I decided to head first for Liverpool Street, using my contactless card to pay.

A decade ago I would have been heading to a cramped platform 16 via the narrow overbridge and gateline shared with anyone using platforms 10-14 as well and then using the one set of steps that led down to the platform – no fancy luxuries like lifts in those days!  Whilst I could have used my Oyster (Smartcard system used by passengers on Transport for London services) card, I would have needed to remember to ensure it was topped up of course.

The train itself pulled it and I reckon about 80 of us got on board, so plenty of room over the 9-car length of the train.  We departed and in ten minutes I had arrived at Liverpool Street, passing through Bond Street with its ‘new station’ and ‘opening soon’ labels on the roundels for a few months until it’s complete.  A VERY smooth ride in an air-conditioned train.

A decade ago my train would have been a 6-car ‘C’ stock train dating from the 70s.  No air-conditioning, a much worse ride, and a journey time of at least twice as long, maybe three times as long as time passed slowly by sat at Edgware Road.

Arriving at Liverpool Street and you’re in another large station with the two platforms connected at regular intervals with a main central corridor.  At one end two long escalators (and a little bit of a walk it has to be said) take you up to Liverpool Street station.  It’s clear how far underground the Elizabeth Line station has to be, to burrow under all the other existing lines and infrastructure.

I hadn’t realised, but the platforms at Liverpool Street station are SO long that if you go up the escalators at the other end, you end up at Moorgate station!  It’s clearly signposted, but I’m sure some people will be heading for connections at Liverpool Street mainline station and miss them because they’ve ended up taking the escalators up to Moorgate by mistake.

So, after a good look around I went back to the platform and got a train to Canary Wharf.  Another vast underground cavern of a station on two levels linked by escalators and lifts cleverly lit in canary yellow.

Next it was on to Custom House, one of only two stations on the route to Abbey Wood that is overground.  A much smaller, though still large, traditional station with the DLR (Docklands Light Railway) station alongside it for ongoing connections.

Finally it was on to the terminus, Abbey Wood.  Two platforms for Elizabeth Line trains, with to adjacent platforms for SouthEastern trains offering connections to Dartford, Gravesend, Lewisham and Sidcup – along with Thameslink trains to Rainham via the Medway towns of Strood, Chatham, Rochester and Gillingham with their quarter of a million inhabitants.

One of the Abbey Wood Elizabeth Line platforms has a connection with the two through lines allowing a future expansion of services through to Gravesend via Dartford and Ebbsfleet without a major rebuild to the station. 

A quick loo stop at Abbey Wood (no toilets on the trains remember!) was needed before I headed back through to Paddington in under thirty minutes.  Throughout all these journeys every train ran punctually, virtually to the second, there were plenty of staff on hand, and I overheard plenty of praise and positivity coming from other passengers...and not a single negative comment.

Arriving at Paddington I decided to head back on one of the Elizabeth Line trains to Reading to complete the experience.  Another visit to the loo alongside Platform 12 where my 9-car train was waiting – I meant to check whether the Elizabeth Line part of the station had its own toilets but forgot.

A decade ago (well, just over actually!) platform 12 was a dingy place to get a train with plenty of artificial light instead of the natural light from Span 4 which in those days was boarded up blocking the light, creating a very poor impression of that part of Paddington station.  The toilets were on Platform 1 and not as nice and spacious…and of course you had to pay for the privilege of using them.

So, back to the train and plenty of seats, and I chose a longitudinal one to see what a long journey travelling sideways would feel like.  I could still get a good look at all the stations en-route, most of which now have nice large concourses, lifts, gatelines and more visible staff.  There was a ticket check shortly after West Drayton.

A decade ago this would probably have been a 3-car diesel Turbo (perhaps even a 2-car!).  No air-conditioning (or that worked anyway).  Larger stations we stopped at enroute like Ealing, Hayes and Southall had cramped concourses, few lifts and few staff.  Smaller stations were open to access by anyone, with a ticket or not, unless you were confined to a wheelchair when it was tough luck.  And ticket examinations were rarer than hen’s teeth!

I arrived back at Reading very pleased with what I saw and experienced.

Sure, I could chuck a few negatives in there.  We should have been up and running with this service several years ago, and it’s gone over budget.  You still can’t get direct from Ealing to Abbey Wood.  The ‘cleverly lit’ canary yellow lifts and escalators could easily be labelled a bit naff. 

A definite artwork fail is the glass roof at Paddington with its ‘pretend cloud’ finish that (when it is cloudy like yesterday) just looks like the window cleaners have left without finishing the job – perhaps it looks better under blue skies?

Then there are the free toilets at Paddington, but of course the old Turbo trains had free toilets on board which is the case no longer.  We also had a tissue seller on board from Ealing to West Drayton (though he was a very polite one).

Overall though?  Fantastic, transformative and modern.  Something for all Londoners to be proud of.
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