Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
End of through trains
Bristol to Waterloo?

 
Please sign our petition
(more information)
 
Campaign links here
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 13:35 02 Dec 2021
- How I got my dream job with a Tube station pitch
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 tomorrow - TWSW AGM - online
09/12/21 - Award Event - CRN
19/01/22 - MTUG - regular meeting
08/03/22 - WWRUG AGM - B-o-A
Random Image
Train RunningCancelled
13:34 Maidenhead to Marlow
14:00 Marlow to Maidenhead
15:10 Bristol Parkway to London Paddington
17:12 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway
17:57 Reading to Basingstoke
18:35 Basingstoke to Reading
19:25 Reading to Basingstoke
20:07 Basingstoke to Reading
Short Run
12:12 London Paddington to Bristol Parkway
12:36 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
13:41 Bedwyn to London Paddington
Delayed
08:15 Penzance to London Paddington
11:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
December 02, 2021, 01:40:42 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[107] Are the railways fit for their (future) purpose?
[53] Some pictures off the old computer - Bank Holiday Quiz
[46] Access to Ashley Down Rail Station Engagement Survey
[44] Advent quiz, day 2 - "only connect".
[34] Bike spaces on IETs
[30] Rail Ombudsman launched - 26th November 2018
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 9
  Print  
Author Topic: Crossrail - further delay  (Read 25365 times)
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 6075


View Profile
« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2020, 05:04:21 pm »

I guess in the "new normal" there's a discussion to be had about whether it's still justifiable to be pouring more and more money into a scheme for which demand is likely to be far lower than was originally anticipated, but notwithstanding that, the financial situation and delays are ridiculous.

But what have you got if you don't put more money in?  You can't send it back and get a refund on what is spent.  So in economic terms the question is whether the whole benefit of completing the scheme is worth the extra ?1 billion or so?  Not whether the benefit is worth all that will have been spent. 

As I said, there's a discussion to be had, but there clearly needs to be more accountability for these projects which vastly exceed budgets and timings.

I suspect, given the usual railway form, some years (more likely decades) down the line, we will be facing similar discussions over massive cost increases/time overruns with HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) - in the case of cost of course, we already are.
Logged
eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4542


View Profile Email
« Reply #46 on: October 05, 2020, 11:11:07 am »

Nice trains though, and TfL» (Transport for London - about) have given Taplow a much enhanced service, as well as an improved station environment and ever friendly staff!

Agree with Taplowgreen the station looks good although it would be better still with the old footbridge in place. However it would mean no lift from the South Car Park.

The train service seems pretty reliable Three Up stoppers is an hours gardening.

Just a thought  now that the line is likely to be less well used in the central section when it opens it might it be time to add toilets to the 345s whislt many units are spare and could be run though the works .

One disabled two ordinary in a nine car.  Lose < 100 capacity out ot 1500.
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4497



View Profile
« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2020, 04:10:50 pm »

Agree, IMHO (in my humble opinion) ALL new trains should have toilets.
Allowance needs to be made not just for the normal and foreseeable needs of passengers, but also for the inevitable strandings and breakdowns.
Remember the Lewisham debacle and the appalling conditions resulting.
Consider also the inevitable use of trains on longer routes than for which they were originally intended.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Surrey 455
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1095


View Profile
« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2020, 08:23:45 pm »

Just a thought  now that the line is likely to be less well used in the central section when it opens it might it be time to add toilets to the 345s whislt many units are spare and could be run though the works .

One disabled two ordinary in a nine car.  Lose < 100 capacity out ot 1500.

I'm struggling to visualise how this could lead to the loss up to 100 sitting / standing passengers.
Logged
Surrey 455
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1095


View Profile
« Reply #49 on: October 05, 2020, 08:27:21 pm »

From newcivilengineer.com

Quote
Crossrail Ltd has confirmed that upgrade works to surface stations on the eastern and western sections of the railway will be pushed into next year due to the impact of the Covid-19 pandemic.
In a monthly update to the London Assembly, Crossrail Ltd chief executive Mark Wild said that despite recent progress at Romford, West Drayton, Ealing Broadway and Hayes & Harlington, the pandemic had interrupted progress.
?As a result of the temporary pause of Network Rail works due to Covid-19, it is likely that these enhanced stations, along with llford, Southall, Acton Main Line and West Ealing, will be completed as soon as possible in 2021,? he said.
Logged
FremlinsMan
Full Member
***
Posts: 60


View Profile
« Reply #50 on: October 05, 2020, 08:33:46 pm »

Just a thought  now that the line is likely to be less well used in the central section when it opens it might it be time to add toilets to the 345s whislt many units are spare and could be run though the works .

One disabled two ordinary in a nine car.  Lose < 100 capacity out ot 1500.

I'm struggling to visualise how this could lead to the loss up to 100 sitting / standing passengers.
To provide toilets, couldn't these trains have a carriage dedicated to that purpose? No seats, just toilets. It would truly be a "honey wagon".
Logged
stuving
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5941


View Profile
« Reply #51 on: October 05, 2020, 10:19:22 pm »

Just a thought  now that the line is likely to be less well used in the central section when it opens it might it be time to add toilets to the 345s whislt many units are spare and could be run though the works .

One disabled two ordinary in a nine car.  Lose < 100 capacity out ot 1500.

I'm struggling to visualise how this could lead to the loss up to 100 sitting / standing passengers.

You said "up to". The original said "less than". They mean the same thing, don't they (apart from exact equality, that is)?
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 8936


View Profile
« Reply #52 on: October 05, 2020, 10:32:12 pm »

Whilst a toilet retrofit would be most welcome, realistically it won?t happen.  Too costly and of course the depots would also need redesigning and expensive equipment fitted to allow for toilet waste to be tanked and disposed of.

It remains a major flaw of the trains and tarnishes the slick operation and otherwise suitable design of the trains IMHO (in my humble opinion).
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5856


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #53 on: October 06, 2020, 10:05:55 am »


It remains a major flaw of the trains and tarnishes the slick operation and otherwise suitable design of the trains IMHO (in my humble opinion).

Nonetheless, the time most, if not all, passengers will spend on a Crossrail train is less than many will spend on a bus in somewhere like Bristol. There is no call to equip buses with toilets, and fewer bus stops than stations have facilities.
Logged

Now, please!
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4497



View Profile
« Reply #54 on: October 06, 2020, 03:46:18 pm »

IMHO (in my humble opinion), toilets are a requirement even for relatively short rail routes due to the risk of stranding, breakdown or other delays.
Not comparable to buses. Passengers may alight from a delayed bus and relieve them selves, whereas on trains the policy is "keep them on board no matter what"
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 6075


View Profile
« Reply #55 on: October 06, 2020, 04:44:47 pm »

IMHO (in my humble opinion), toilets are a requirement even for relatively short rail routes due to the risk of stranding, breakdown or other delays.
Not comparable to buses. Passengers may alight from a delayed bus and relieve them selves, whereas on trains the policy is "keep them on board no matter what"

.............an empty Port bottle may come in handy in these circumstances?  Wink
Logged
didcotdean
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1315


View Profile
« Reply #56 on: October 06, 2020, 04:44:57 pm »

The TfL» (Transport for London - about) argument is that toilets will be available within nearly all Crossrail stations and for the others they are facilities nearby (eg for Paddington in the main line station and Bond Street in the shopping centre above). However, some people will be in more urgent need, and outside of emergencies the current low service frequencies makes breaking the journey unattractive.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 34975



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #57 on: October 06, 2020, 06:10:12 pm »

Agree, IMHO (in my humble opinion) ALL new trains should have toilets.

[snip]

Consider also the inevitable use of trains on longer routes than for which they were originally intended.

I will give you "most" but not all.  There are no toilets on class 139 trains, and I think you would be hard pressed to justify them as and when the time comes for replacements.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3641


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #58 on: October 06, 2020, 07:50:08 pm »

The TfL» (Transport for London - about) argument is that toilets will be available within nearly all Crossrail stations and for the others they are facilities nearby (eg for Paddington in the main line station and Bond Street in the shopping centre above). However, some people will be in more urgent need, and outside of emergencies the current low service frequencies makes breaking the journey unattractive.

The Elizabeth Line is a Metro service, the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) have determined that metro services do not require toilets, many other services into London do not have toilets on board trains
Logged

Neither a wise man nor a brave man lies down on the tracks of history to wait for the train of the future to run over him.     
Dwight D. Eisenhower
1st fan
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 302


View Profile
« Reply #59 on: October 06, 2020, 08:03:22 pm »

This is an interesting article and associated research paper showing how common overruns and cost escalations are in all sectors, not just rail:

https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/cost_overruns_of_major_government_projects

Interesting indeed - I note that rail projects had by far the highest average cost escalation (page 4) and the organisation you cite have produced a lot of interesting articles on HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) as well, which dwarfs most of the others in terms of cost overrun;

https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/scrap_hs2

The taxpayers alliance is a shadowy extreme right wing lobby group whose funding is a closely guarded secret.  I am not sure how much weight I would put on any so called research they publish. 
My uncle has worked on large projects across the world. He said there's zero chance that they only realised months/weeks/days before it was due to open that it wouldn't. You have timelines, deadlines, project update meetings all of which would in any normal project indicate that there are going to be delays.
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 9
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page