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Poll
Question: Transport policies - who would you vote for on transport policy alone?  (Voting closed: November 27, 2019, 07:38:56 am)
Brexit Party - 0 (0%)
Conservative - 3 (13.6%)
Green - 3 (13.6%)
Independent Group for Change - 0 (0%)
Labour - 4 (18.2%)
Liberal Democrat - 7 (31.8%)
Plaid Cymru - 0 (0%)
UKIP - 0 (0%)
(Someone else) - 0 (0%)
(Not decided) - 4 (18.2%)
(Won't vote) - 1 (4.5%)
Total Voters: 22

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Author Topic: Transport policies - who would you vote for on transport policy alone?  (Read 1565 times)
grahame
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« on: November 17, 2019, 07:38:56 am »

From the BBC's party policy guide at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50291676
I have scraped transport policy for the GB parties and present them here in alphabetic party order

On Transport Policy - who would you vote for?   
A totally optional poll (and remember polls here are secret; even the forum admins have no tools ....)

Brexit Party

Scrap HS2, but invest in road and rail projects across the regions
Free wi-fi on all public transport

Conservative

£25bn to upgrade key roads over the next five years
£220m to improve bus services across England
Scrap the rail franchise system
New veterans' railcard, giving those who have served in the armed forces a third off rail fares

Green

Scrap HS2 and use the money to invest in new rail links in rural areas and better integrated transport options in towns and cities
Invest £15bn a year in a "sustainable transport revolution", including the creation of new railway lines in the North and national cycleways
Give local authorities more power over bus and local train services

Independent Group for Change

Support new capacity on rail continuing with the HS2 line connecting the East Midlands and Yorkshire
Improve bus services by allowing areas beyond London to have similar powers to regulate

Labour

Bring rail services back into public ownership as franchises expire
Cap rail fares to prevent above-inflation increases
Extend free bus travel to all under-25s
Restore 3,000 bus routes and give more local control of bus services
Invest in transport infrastructure including building "Crossrail for the North"

Liberal Democrat

Programme of investment in rail travel, including new stations, lines and trains
Allow public sector bodies and mutual groups, involving staff and passengers, to bid for rail franchises
Investment in green transport, including buses, cycling and walking

Plaid Cymru

Introduce a Wales-wide smart card ticketing service for public transport passengers
Make rail fares more affordable, secure new trains, open new stations and consider re-opening railway lines across Wales
Introduce additional vehicle electricity charging points across Wales
Re-regulate buses
Roads investment to focus on improving links between north and south Wales as well as along the main east-west transport corridors

Scottish Nationalist Party

Invest £500m in new bus infrastructure
Ensure there can be a "robust" public sector bid for the next ScotRail franchise
Invest over £1bn annually in public transport and other sustainable transport options
Reduce emissions from Scotland’s railways to zero by 2035
Introduce initiative to ensure more people choose to make everyday journeys on foot or by bike

UKIP

Scrap HS2
Oppose the expansion of Heathrow Airport
Scrap road tolls
Abandon the current rollout of smart motorways

Although I have included the Scottish Nationalist's policy in this post for completeness and comparison, I have not offered them as a choice for our members as (to my knowledge) they are not fielding any candidates in the constituencies covered by this forum.

With the exception of the Green Party, Northern Ireland has a totally different set of parties and its rail system is not part of the UK national setup.  Because of that, I have not diluted the list above with the policies of the likes of the UUP, Sinn Fein, DUP, SDLP, etc.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2019, 09:11:51 am »

………….thinking of one of our esteemed members in particular, what are each of the parties positions on buffets?

Who knows, in some constituencies* it may tip the balance!  Wink


(*well one, anyway!)
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Celestial
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2019, 11:10:19 am »

………….thinking of one of our esteemed members in particular, what are each of the parties positions on buffets?

Who knows, in some constituencies* it may tip the balance!  Wink


(*well one, anyway!)
I'm not sure why but the suggestion that broadgage might tip the balance brings something else to mind other than election results.
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mjones
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2019, 11:38:00 am »

The Conservatives were talking about cutting fuel duty  before the budget that didn't take place.  That would be totally counter productive,  making public transport less competitive with driving and giving the greatest benefit to those with the largest and least fuel efficient vehicles.
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broadgage
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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2019, 01:53:00 pm »

………….thinking of one of our esteemed members in particular, what are each of the parties positions on buffets?

Who knows, in some constituencies* it may tip the balance!  Wink


(*well one, anyway!)

ISTR that the Labour party are in favour of buffets. Not I suspect out of concern for passengers, but because the RMT want buffets due to the employment of union members therein. Labour tend to agree with the trades unions.

I think that both the Welsh nationalists and the Scottish nationalists have spoken in favour of "better quality trains" including improved capacity, facing seats at tables, more luggage space and better on board facilities. Not SPECIFICLY  mentioning buffets, but support for same seems a reasonable inference.

AFAIK the green party have not mentioned it. But might I suspect prefer that the space be used for cycles. Any buffet that WAS provided would probably have to serve only lettuce and carrot juice, and MAYBE organic beer, but only one bottle per customer.

The conservative MPs in this area have been very critical of the IETs including the lack of buffets, but that might be the views of a handful and not representative of party policy.

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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
ellendune
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2019, 02:18:38 pm »

Difficult I would like a cross between Green and Lib Dem really.  Thing is if HS2 is cancelled the the WCML and potentially other routes to the North will become so crowded that the fares will rise to beyond extortionate to limit demand and potentially local services will suffer to make way for long distance capacity. 

However the Green policies about electrification and local transport are great. 
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Richard Fairhurst
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2019, 02:37:24 pm »

I'd probably vote on cycling policy rather than rail policy. Rail is ok-though-with-problems right now, while the state of cycling infrastructure is terrible. Rail requires billions to be sorted out, while you can get big modal shift to cycling with comparative small change.

But that said... the only national politician who has ever done anything of significance for cycling is Boris Johnson, when he introduced protected cycleways in his former incarnation as Mayor of London. And even if he were to announce a programme of protected cycleways all over Britain, plus reopening 500 miles of railways to passengers, sorting out ticketing and refitting Voyagers, I'd still have qualms about voting for him!
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broadgage
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2019, 03:36:53 pm »

………….thinking of one of our esteemed members in particular, what are each of the parties positions on buffets?

Who knows, in some constituencies* it may tip the balance!  Wink


(*well one, anyway!)
I'm not sure why but the suggestion that broadgage might tip the balance brings something else to mind other than election results.

I know not to what you could possibly be refering Lips sealed
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
PhilWakely
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2019, 04:26:04 pm »

I note the entry in "(won't vote)"

It should be a legal duty to cast your vote in an election - even if it is for 'none of the above' (i.e. a spoiled ballot paper). It is no wonder we currently have the chaos we have when an election can be won with barely 30% of the electorate having voted for that party/outcome.

I note that certain members of 'the elite' have been suggesting that parents 'prevent their children from voting'.

 Angry  Angry  Angry  Angry
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2019, 04:27:58 pm »

I think it's actually harder than I'd expected to isolate transport from other policies and one's own stance on those. For instance, the Greens and TIGs both want to give more transport planning powers to local bodies – this will be affected by one's view of local/central power balance, the Conservatives' plan to introduce a veterans' railcard interacts with the voter's opinions on militarism, the SNP and PC policies are obviously mostly focused on their particular countries, while economics affects nearly all of it.
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Day return to Infinity, please.
Red Squirrel
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2019, 04:51:00 pm »

I note the entry in "(won't vote)"

Just to be clear, grahame's question was 'who would you vote for on transport policy alone'. On that basis, I would not vote. In reality, there will be other issues at play, and I can assure you that I will vote, even if I have to hold my nose whilst doing so.
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2019, 08:20:38 pm »

Quote from: Red Squirrel
Just to be clear, grahame's question was 'who would you vote for on transport policy alone'. On that basis, I would not vote. In reality, there will be other issues at play, and I can assure you that I will vote, even if I have to hold my nose whilst doing so.

I am in agreement with the more senior RS around here Wink

I do not believe that it is sensile to vote for any party on the basis of one manifesto promise alone, especially when one considers that both major party's records on actually implementing manifesto pledges is woeful to put it at its politest. And even if they do implement them, policies have a nasty habit of biting their backsides later when the true implications come to light (eg austerity cuts, Windrush generation, and more recently Brexit)

I'm not sure I would do it on a lib dem manifesto pledage either, especially after what happened over tuition fees...
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Adrian
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2019, 10:27:30 pm »

The Conservatives were talking about cutting fuel duty  before the budget that didn't take place.  That would be totally counter productive,  making public transport less competitive with driving and giving the greatest benefit to those with the largest and least fuel efficient vehicles.

As electric cars become a bigger and bigger proportion of the total, fuel duty is going to raise a smaller proportion of the funds needed to maintain the road network.  Clearly it's impossible to tax electricity used to power cars differently to electricity used in the home.  So presumably there will need to be some new funding model - maybe including 'smart' forms of road pricing.  Wouldn't it makes sense if you had to pay a premium to drive your car in cities during the morning and evening rush hour?
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2019, 11:05:36 pm »

...when one considers that both major party's records on actually implementing manifesto pledges is woeful to put it at its politest.

Here's a manifesto statement for you:

Quote
Plan for Transport

Nowhere is planning more urgently needed than in our transport system. The tragedy of lives lost and maimed; growing discomfort and delays in the journey to work; the summer weekend paralysis on our national highways; the chaos and loss of amenity in our towns and cities - these are only some of the unsolved problems of the new motor age.

Far from easing these problems, the Government's policy of breaking up road and rail freight co-ordination, of denationalising road haulage and finally of axing rail services under the Beeching Plan, have made things worse.

Labour will draw up a national plan for transport covering the national networks of road, rail and canal communications, properly co-ordinated with air, coastal shipping and port services. The new regional authorities will be asked to draw up transport plans for their own areas. While these are being prepared, major rail closures will be halted.

British Road Services, will be given all necessary powers to extend their fleet of road vehicles and to develop a first-rate national freight service. Reform of the road goods licensing system must now await the report of the Geddes Committee but, in the interests of road safety, we shall act vigorously to stop cut-throat haulage firms from flouting regulations covering vehicle maintenance, loads and driving hours.

Labour believes that public transport, road and rail, must play the dominant part in the journey to work. Every effort will be made to improve and modernise these services. Urgent attention will be given to the proposals in the Buchanan Report and to the development of new roads capable of diverting through traffic from town centres.

Labour will ensure that public transport is able to provide a reasonable service for those who live in rural areas. The studies already mentioned will decide whether these should be provided by public road or rail services.
Source: Labour Party

For the sake of fairness, I've quoted this in full. It's the Labour Party Manifesto from 1964.

Between the Beeching Report and the end of 1964 (Labour came to power in the October), 2224 km of routes had been closed. If closures were halted, it can only have been for the blink of an eye, for Labour went on to close a further 4143 km between 1965 and 1970 when the Tories returned, by which time the axe was more or less blunted.

Of course it was the Tories who hired Beeching, and the Labour manifesto didn't say they were going to halt the cuts completely. But surely few people reading it would have imagined that far more lines would be axed under Labour than were closed under the Tories.

So who do we believe this time?
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2019, 03:40:06 pm »

The Conservatives were talking about cutting fuel duty  before the budget that didn't take place.  That would be totally counter productive,  making public transport less competitive with driving and giving the greatest benefit to those with the largest and least fuel efficient vehicles.

As electric cars become a bigger and bigger proportion of the total, fuel duty is going to raise a smaller proportion of the funds needed to maintain the road network.  Clearly it's impossible to tax electricity used to power cars differently to electricity used in the home.  So presumably there will need to be some new funding model - maybe including 'smart' forms of road pricing.  Wouldn't it makes sense if you had to pay a premium to drive your car in cities during the morning and evening rush hour?
Not impossible. Power at the various sorts of dedicated chargers can obviously be taxed differently. For charging from a domestic circuit, it should be possible for the vehicle itself to record how much power it has taken on, when and where and to allocate this to the appropriate bill. There is historical precedent for this; in some countries, electricity for lighting had a lower rate than for general power, though I don't think this was ever done in UK. Whether there's political will to coordinate the manufacturers, power cos and other relevant parties, and even more so to accustom EV owners to paying tax on their fuel, is another matter. So not impossible but probably impractical, at least for the foreseeable future.
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