Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About
Waterloo Campaign
Travel Safe. Wear a face mask on the train or bus if you can.
No recent travel & transport from BBC stories as at 15:35 29 Sep 2022
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/10/22 - ClimateFest, Melksham
21/10/22 - TWSW General Meeting

On this day
29th Sep (1935)
Lynton and Barnstaple closed (link)

Train RunningCancelled
13:43 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
14:04 London Paddington to Penzance
Short Run
13:18 Hereford to London Paddington
13:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
14:23 Exmouth to Paignton
14:35 Barnstaple to Exeter Central
14:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
15:51 Paignton to Exmouth
16:13 Exeter Central to Barnstaple
17:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
Delayed
14:10 Paignton to London Paddington
14:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
An additional train service has been planned to operate as shown 16:35 Yeovil Pen Mill to Westbury
PollsOpen and recent polls
Open to 04/10 08:15 Airport closure (Doncaster) - what to you think?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
September 29, 2022, 03:50:07 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[174] East - West Rail update (Oxford to Bedford) - ongoing discussi...
[152] Elizabeth Line - ongoing discussion
[92] Problems with IET trains from April 2021
[59] Okehampton
[49] Airport Closure - Doncaster / Sheffield / Robin Hood
[46] [Stagecoach South West] Bus changes, October & November 2022...
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
Author Topic: Bristol - Birmingham corridor. Time for a service pattern review?  (Read 7334 times)
JontyMort
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 342


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2019, 06:29:44 pm »

I would think that local services between Gloucester (or maybe Cheltenham) and Bristol should be separated from an hourly semi-fast type service between Bristol and Worcester, otherwise the journey times are too long.

Yes, I agree. Hourly Bristol-Worcester would open up many more journey opportunities - certainly it would make some journeys I make much easier. I worry that the opening of Worcestershire Parkway may have taken some of the impetus away from improving Bristol-Worcester SH.

I'd be interested to know if there could be a market to run Bristol services north from Worcester, to Kidderminster and Stourbridge. It's a significant catchment (as demonstrated by Chiltern with its London services). Currently heading southwest means either changing at Worcester onto the very infrequent services, or going via Birmingham with all the attendant fun of New Street and CrossCountry. Most people, I suspect, use the M5 instead.

(As ever, the issue with running trains north through Worcester is that you can't then call at the city centre station, Foregate Street, because the track layout doesn't permit a reversal AIUI (as I understand it).)

A very noticeable point from the TT posted by Graham is the presence of two decent early evening Bristol-Worcester trains at 1730 and 1830. Nothing as good as that today, with a yawning gap between 1700 and 1900 (and each of those needs a change).

Incidentally, from December the reasonable morning service (0649 Shrub Hill, with 7-minute connexion at Cheltenham into XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)), arriving Temple Meads at 0805) will also be history. The earliest viable arrival at Temple Meads will be 0835.

Anything running north through Worcester cannot - as you say - call at Foregate Street. If a decent layout were reinstated, this could be possible, though whether that is desirable depends on your opinion of which is the main station in Worcester.
Logged
Noggin
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 413


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2019, 09:21:43 pm »

I never quite caught the detail, but wasn't there a suggestion in the HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) review that there should be some kind of an additonal capacity to permit a faster service between Birmingham and Bristol.

Bear in mind also that TfWM have an aspiration to run services from Birmingham Moor Street to Bristol and Cardiff, at a guess they would be alternating on the hour. 

I wonder how much additional capacity can be found on the line? Perhaps electrification might need to be sooner rather than later?

Logged
Celestial
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 673


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2019, 09:49:48 pm »


Bear in mind also that TfWM have an aspiration to run services from Birmingham Moor Street to Bristol and Cardiff, at a guess they would be alternating on the hour. 
I thought it was from Cardiff to Bristol and Cardiff to Birmingham.  Cardiff to Birmingham certainly makes sense, as there really ought to be a better (and faster) service between the two cities.   
Logged
JontyMort
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 342


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2019, 11:22:39 pm »

I never quite caught the detail, but wasn't there a suggestion in the HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) review that there should be some kind of an additonal capacity to permit a faster service between Birmingham and Bristol.

Bear in mind also that TfWM have an aspiration to run services from Birmingham Moor Street to Bristol and Cardiff, at a guess they would be alternating on the hour. 

I wonder how much additional capacity can be found on the line? Perhaps electrification might need to be sooner rather than later?


The main problem is the familiar one of mixed traffic on a double-track line. Of the 93-odd miles, the middle 80 - say Kings Norton to Bristol Parkway - can be done in an hour. The Bristol end has been improved considerably by the re-quadrupling at Filton, but the Birmingham end is a nightmare. Either one goes via Camp Hill, crawling round at 15 mph to reach New Street from the east, or one crawls up the West Suburban behind a cross-city stopper from Kings Norton to Five Ways. In a peak hour, the Five Ways route has to take six cross-city 323s, two or even three Worcester 170s, a Cardiff 170, and one 22x or HST (High Speed Train) on XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)), the other going Camp Hill.

The northern half of the cross-city doesn't suffer as much, because there is no fast traffic on the Aston-Lichfield line.

I've often wondered if New Street-Kings Norton could be linked to the trams on a new dedicated right of way, freeing up the current line for outer suburban and main line stuff (just retaining University?). It won't happen, of course.

South of KN it's better, with quadruple track from there to Longbridge.
Logged
Witham Bobby
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 331



View Profile
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2019, 09:11:52 am »

With the benefit of hindsight, BR (British Rail(ways)) closure of Cheltenham - Stratford upon Avon was a huge mistake.

Oh for a time machine, to go back 43 years and prevent 45 068's Toton to STJcn train coming off the road at Winchcombe 
Logged
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5969


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2019, 10:37:47 am »

With the benefit of hindsight, BR (British Rail(ways)) closure of Cheltenham - Stratford upon Avon was a huge mistake.
I dare say that there are a few lines that fall into that category.
Logged
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1129


View Profile Email
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2019, 10:56:28 am »

Quote from: Witham Bobby
With the benefit of hindsight, BR (British Rail(ways)) closure of Cheltenham - Stratford upon Avon was a huge mistake.

Oh for a time machine, to go back 43 years and prevent 45 068's Toton to STJcn train coming off the road at Winchcombe 

Bearing in mind the unpleasantly expensive landslip problem the Gloucestershire & Warwickshire had to deal with not long ago, if you can procure that time machine perhaps you ought to go back further to make sure that the formation was built more robustly in the first place. Because if that drailment hadn't have spelt the end of the line in later BR days, that landslip most certainly would.
Logged
Witham Bobby
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 331



View Profile
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2019, 12:07:11 pm »

-snip-
Because if that drailment hadn't have spelt the end of the line in later BR (British Rail(ways)) days, that landslip most certainly would.

Would have been a problem, for sure; there have been a number of slips in dormant and GWSR days.  The drainage system needs to be kept in tip-top order, particularly where there are deep cuttings or high embankments and steep sides.  I'm not convinced BR were doing this properly on the less used lines after about the mid 1960s (and they certainly were not on the closed ones)

Apologies for derailing, and being off topic
Logged
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4720


There are some who call me... Tim


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2019, 12:15:58 pm »

-snip-
Because if that drailment hadn't have spelt the end of the line in later BR (British Rail(ways)) days, that landslip most certainly would.

Would have been a problem, for sure; there have been a number of slips in dormant and GWSR days.  The drainage system needs to be kept in tip-top order, particularly where there are deep cuttings or high embankments and steep sides.  I'm not convinced BR were doing this properly on the less used lines after about the mid 1960s (and they certainly were not on the closed ones)

Apologies for derailing, and being off topic

I'll forgive you. GWSR certainly seem to be taking this seriously these days: https://draingang.blogspot.com/
Logged

Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page