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Author Topic: Advertising to make fossil fuelled car travel easier - acceptable for how long?  (Read 1835 times)
broadgage
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« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2019, 07:13:47 pm »

One of the biggest consumable items impacting climate change is red meat (BBC1 2100 tomorrow refers), which generates more greenhouse gasses than all transport industries combined.  So to be consistent I presume you never eat red meat, and that you feel it shouldn't be available on the Pullman services.  And those nasty steam trains on the WSR that puff out lots of smoke as they burn coal, and which people have probably driven to Bishops Lydiard to join, thus emitting totally unnecessary carbon emissions in the process too. They should be stopped too.


I have reduced my consumption of red meat due to concerns about the climate change impact thereof. I do not propose to give it up entirely.
I have mixed feelings about steam locomotives, but on balance would support moderate use thereof on preserved lines, and the odd charter on the main line. I would support the introduction of battery locomotives on heritage lines for engineering trains and ECS moves.
As previously stated I am strongly in favour of a regular through service to bishops Lydeard, partly in order that visitors may enjoy the WSR without driving.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 11:51:42 am by broadgage » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
broadgage
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« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2019, 07:22:09 pm »

I don't see why Port imports would be affected.
It is imported either by ship or by rail through the channel tunnel.
Rail is reasonably green.
Modern ships use very little fuel per ton of cargo. Sailing ships would be preferable and may yet return.
Final distribution of Port is almost always by road, regrettable but no worse than most other goods.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2019, 07:46:57 pm by broadgage » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
ellendune
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« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2019, 07:57:52 pm »

eightonedee makes some very good points. The more I read about this the more complicated it is.  There is a great difference between the carbon footprint of grass fed meat and cereal feed meat, much of that to do with the carbon footprint of the fertilisers used to grow the grain. Much of the west of England and Wales is unsuitable for grain production - and some of that is only suitable for low grade grain production of the type used to feed animals. As eightonedee says the type of farming we do has created our ecology. 

The vegan products in the supermarkets have loads of imported unsustainable ingredients so the simple vegan message does not work either.  Vegetarianism is not really the answer as you cannot have dairy production without beef!

In general a move to less intensive (especially away from large factory farming in buildings) seems to be the way forward, with us eating less meat, but then we have to ask ourselves how do we support our rural communities who need the income from farming to survive?

The answer will also be different depending on the location. Not just the location in the world but within the UK as well.

In short if anyone says they have a simple answer, then it is probably wrong!

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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2019, 08:14:13 pm »

Well, that escalated! 🙂
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Celestial
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« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2019, 09:33:26 pm »

I can't remember the last time I saw a TV or press advert for petrol or steak

There are smokers in this country who weren't even born when the last advert for filthy fags appeared on TV or in papers, so banning adverts for bad things isn't a guaranteed path to social benefit. Writing stark warnings on fag packets, introducing generic packaging, and not having them on open display seems to be helping, but if somebody wants something, they will get it, advertised or not.

I think McDonalds still advertise quite heavily, and I suspect they get through a fair amount of beef in a year. I hadn't noticed that the sustainability of its production is a key selling point either.

Yes, young adults are still smoking, but the fall in smoking since the 1970s has been dramatic. From around 50%, it's now down to 14%, with a reduction from 20% in the last 7 years (so the ONS tells me!).  That also says that the biggest fall has been in the youngest age group 18-24. The lack of advertising is of course only one factor, the ban on smoking in public places and making it more difficult for youngsters to purchase (eg no more cigarette machines) will obviously be big factors too. 

If I could ban one type of advertising for the wider social good it would be the majority of betting adverts.   

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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2019, 10:16:47 pm »

And payday loans...
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TonyK
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« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2019, 01:42:35 pm »

If I could ban one type of advertising for the wider social good it would be the majority of betting adverts.   


A few months of working in a Blackpool amusement arcade and seeing how people can so easily and quickly lose great piles of cash, even with 1p stakes, was enough to put me off gambling. One family sticks in mind - mum, dad and two kids, recently arrived and whiling away the time until they could get into the B&B. I noticed them in the quiet period around teatime, but lost them in the evening crowd until dad asked to speak to the manager, in an unsuccessful plea for a refund. They had spent all their cash, in pennies, including what they were going to pay the landlady with. Complex financial things like credit cards, Wonga, and even cash machines were still a little way off. They walked out around 9pm with nothing but the return fossil fuelled coach ticket for the following Saturday. I don't know how that one finished. Since then, gambling has become even easier and almost normalised, and I would therefore support your proposed ban.
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broadgage
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« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2019, 05:02:18 pm »

Agree, gambling, betting and gaming were on my original list of things that should not be advertised.
I would not prohibit betting and gambling since that drives the trade underground and into organised crime groups.

I would however prohibit all advertising and promoting of gaming, betting and gambling. For clarity I should add that I refer here to gaming, betting, and gambling for money, or monies worth and not to games played for amusement with no money involved.

Amusement arcades involving gambling are part of the seaside resort experience, and should IMHO be permitted but not advertised.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2019, 06:25:43 pm »



If I could ban one type of advertising for the wider social good it would be the majority of betting adverts.   


A fiver says it'll never happen
« Last Edit: November 25, 2019, 09:44:57 pm by Red Squirrel » Logged
TonyK
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« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2019, 08:07:41 pm »


Amusement arcades involving gambling are part of the seaside resort experience, and should IMHO be permitted but not advertised.

Not always a pleasant part!
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LiskeardRich
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« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2019, 09:33:31 am »

Probably a controversial post for the rest of the post, but I have no objection to petrol stations advertising.
So many of us are still reliant on petrol as alternative fuels haven’t caught up in development and those available are prohibitively expensive for most of us still.
I’m currently driving a fairly economic car that’s been in my ownership since 2010, it does 60+mpg and is in the £30 a year road tax group for low emissions. Arguably my car is better for the environment than modern battery power stuff due to the current manufacturing of battery’s and electricity generation
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TonyK
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« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2019, 09:25:06 pm »

Probably a controversial post for the rest of the post, but I have no objection to petrol stations advertising.

A good point. "You can be sure of Shell!", "Put a Tiger in Your Tank!". "Something Worthwhile to do with BP!" are all things of the past. Advertising has passed fuel by, as you normally fill up where it is cheapest, or when the tank falls low, whichever comes first. There is rarely a few coppers between the extremes, unlike in the gas and electricity market. My son in law used to search out a certain brand of petrol until he got stuck behind the tanker leaving the cheap place, only to see it unload at his preferred (more expensive) outlet minutes later.
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LiskeardRich
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« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2019, 01:29:19 pm »

Probably a controversial post for the rest of the post, but I have no objection to petrol stations advertising.

A good point. "You can be sure of Shell!", "Put a Tiger in Your Tank!". "Something Worthwhile to do with BP!" are all things of the past. Advertising has passed fuel by, as you normally fill up where it is cheapest, or when the tank falls low, whichever comes first. There is rarely a few coppers between the extremes, unlike in the gas and electricity market. My son in law used to search out a certain brand of petrol until he got stuck behind the tanker leaving the cheap place, only to see it unload at his preferred (more expensive) outlet minutes later.

We’ve got a Morrisons and a BP here. Strange you should mention the tanker thing, a Esso tanker was filling the BP this morning! Both are on my normal route, if there’s a big queue I’ll normally carry on towards the next, there’s then 3 other options on my journey to work. I might go to a specific one if there’s a promo on (that I’d hear through adverts, I.e double points, or a gift or spend £20 or more on fuel get this item for a bargain price)
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CyclingSid
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« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2019, 07:03:26 am »

There is a suggestion that petrol advertising and labelling should have a "climate" health warning. Can't remember which organisation suggested it, but was in this morning's news.
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stuving
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« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2019, 10:37:27 pm »

There is a suggestion that petrol advertising and labelling should have a "climate" health warning. Can't remember which organisation suggested it, but was in this morning's news.

"the charity ClientEarth, which takes legal action to protect the environment" - or so it says in the IET's house mag. Surprisingly, they have found - if not a legislative route to do this, then something quasi-legal:

Quote
Calls to ban fossil fuel adverts as global carbon emissions increase more slowly

By E&T editorial staff
Published Wednesday, December 4, 2019

Adverts from fossil-fuel companies like BP should come with climate change warnings or be banned according to the charity ClientEarth, which takes legal action to protect the environment.

The group said that BP frequently presents itself as “part of the climate solution” in its ads, which typically show wind turbines and other forms of renewable energy. But ClientEarth said that 96 per cent of the company’s annual spend is on oil and gas projects and it is one of the world’s biggest polluters.

They advocate a “tobacco-style warning” which lets consumers know that claims the company is rapidly transitioning to clean energy are largely misleading.

The environmental legal charity has triggered an official complaint under the guidelines of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), an international set of rules governing corporate conduct.

The complaint is being submitted to the Government’s UK National Contact Point, which is responsible for implementing the complaints mechanism relating to the guidelines.
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