Aberthaw Power Station and Decarbonisation

[whole diary]

[broadgage]

I doubt that I can get to the conference, but would be most interested to hear reports, via this forum or otherwise.
At present I still consider the whole idea to be very improbable, However my mind is not closed to new developments and I find this an interesting possibility.

[TonyK]

I doubt that I can get to the conference, but would be most interested to hear reports, via this forum or otherwise.
At present I still consider the whole idea to be very improbable, However my mind is not closed to new developments and I find this an interesting possibility.

I'm with broadgage in terms of scepticism, but I'll try to watch at least some online if there is a timetable. I'm keen to know if this free hydrogen is concentrated and attainable, or plentiful, powerful but spread out, like wave power.

[stuving]

You may recall the Swedes were getting on with the challenge of replacing coke in steelworks by hydrogen. Hydrogen has its issues, even for those who do have Swedish hydroelectricity to hand. Now someone has popped up with an alternative, based on a bit of molecular sociology to persuade CO2 to give up its evil ways and become CO instead. This is from Yahoo Finance:

The novel recycling system captures the CO2 from the top gas and reduces it to CO using a crystalline mineral lattice known as a 'perovskite' material.  The material was chosen as the reactions take place within a range of temperatures (700-800oC) that can be powered by renewable energy sources and/or generated using heat exchangers connected to the blast furnaces.
...
Under a high concentration of CO2, the perovskite splits CO2 into oxygen, which is absorbed into the lattice, and CO, which is fed back into the blast furnace.  The perovskite can be regenerated to its original form in a chemical reaction that takes place in a low oxygen environment. The oxygen produced can be used in the basic oxygen furnace to produce steel.

It's only a paper study so far (see paper in the Journal of Cleaner Production), and some of the blocks in the diagram look a bit tricky - like the ones labelled "gas separator". But it must be worth a punt of someone's money, as the potential pay-off is big enough to override the low probability of it working well straight off.

In January the government offered the British steel industry £600M, as a combined rescue and "encouragement" to get greener. As a home-grown idea, it's tempting to think this would fit in with that project. Sadly, I doubt the industry will last that long.

[TonyK]

Nice. But doesn't the resulting CO, when fed back through the system and either burnt or oxidised by iron oxides, produce CO₂ again? Sounds fine in theory, but will also need a lot of energy. Maybe a small modular reactor next to the steel works could save the day?

[stuving]

Nice. But doesn't the resulting CO, when fed back through the system and either burnt or oxidised by iron oxides, produce CO₂ again? Sounds fine in theory, but will also need a lot of energy. Maybe a small modular reactor next to the steel works could save the day?

There are two diagrams in the paper linked to above, one for energy flows and this one for mass flows:


It's hard to follow, in part because of all the initialisms, and also the units are a jumble of kg, m³, and moles (gmol). But I think the carbon all goes round in the cycle, and none gets rejected to outside. Mind you, nitrogen isn't shown being rejected - and it must be or the whole thing would explode. Too good to be true? Probably, but hard to see why from a non-expert viewpoint.

I mentioned the gas separators, as the only methods I've come across are dissolving in a liquid (for CO₂ in particular) and successive liquefaction. Here, something splits CO, CO₂, and H₂+N₂ at above 700^oC - so what is it? Does it involve huge heating and cooling energy flows? I did spot this in the text, under "further research is needed":

Another area of focus should be the separation of nitrogen and carbon monoxide gases in an energy-efficient manner.

[broadgage]

The proposal for green steel production sounds most interesting, but I a bit doubtful about anything so complex that also needs further research.

[broadgage]

Approval has just been given for the building of a new and very large pumped storage power station in Scotland.
Output of 1.5 GW^▸ (Great Western) and a storage capacity of 30 GW. That should save significant natural gas.

AT PRESENT we seldom have a surplus of wind power available to fill this new storage, that however will change as more wind turbines are built .
By the time that this pumped storage capacity is built, a night time surplus of wind power is possible in Autumn and Winter, and maybe a daytime surplus of solar energy in Summer.

Building this plant is a large civil engineering job, but the technology is well understood.

https://utilityweek.co.uk/inside-1bn-pumped-hydro-plans-to-more-than-double-britains-electricity-storage/

[broadgage]

Presuming that this proposed pumped storage scheme goes ahead, I hope the safety standards will be higher than in the past.

During the building of Cruachen pumped storage power station, many lives were lost. At least 15 men died, and some reports say as many as 36 lives were lost. Standards were lower decades ago, but the building of Cruachen is not exactly ancient history, it was during my lifetime.

Cruachen remains in use today, with largely the original equipment, and is being expanded.

[ellendune]

During the building of Cruachen pumped storage power station, many lives were lost. At least 15 men died, and some reports say as many as 36 lives were lost. Standards were lower decades ago, but the building of Cruachen is not exactly ancient history, it was during my lifetime.

Cruachen pumped storage power station was built between 1959 and 1965.  I can assure you that construction industry safety has moved beyond all recognition since then.  I started in the industry in the 1970's and the change since then has been massive and I know ot had already improved tremendously before then. 

[eightonedee]

There's a good interpretation centre at Cruachan I would highly recommend if you are in the area. I recall that the display and film showed a lack of high vis, hard hats etc. during construction, and indicated that working conditions were tough, albeit that pay rates reflected them.

Not something that would be tolerated now.

[broadgage]

Presuming that this new pumped storage scheme goes ahead, I hope that rail transport is used so far as possible.
The site is not rail served, but a project of this size could justify the building of a new line direct to the work site and connected into the existing network at a suitable point.
A local passenger service to transport the workforce would be far preferable to use of cars.
A great deal of tunneling will be required, and the resulting spoil should be removed by rail. Granite has many uses including railway track ballast, making of concrete, and large boulders for sea defences.
And of course materials will need delivering.
Explosives will be needed, and are best moved by train.
After the works are completed, any new rail lines could be retained as a tourist attraction, or dismantled.

[stuving]

Here's a thing - a rather silly looking thing too. From Business Live:

Carbon capture train to link enfinium’s Ferrybridge waste facilities with Teesside

There are hopes that more carbon creating firms will benefit from the route

Plans to establish what is billed as the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)'s first carbon capture rail corridor have taken a step forward.

Liquid storage provider Navigator Terminals has signed a memorandum of understanding with energy from waste operator enfinium that could see a rail link between the latter's Ferrybridge waste-to-energy plants and Navigator's Seal Sands site. The train service would transport carbon dioxide captured at the West Yorkshire facility to the Teesside site before it is shipped out to undersea aquifers for storage as part of the Net Zero Teesside and East Coast Cluster carbon capture project.

It is hoped the project - which comes after the Chancellor's announcement of £20bn funding for the sector - could open the door to other carbon emitters based in the North. The firms say the move will enable decarbonisation of one of the country's largest waste-to-energy plants.

Read more: East Yorkshire business park ready to bloom again in second decade

Bechtel, a global engineering, construction, and project management company, has been selected to support the feasibility work underpinning the concept...

On second thoughts, if you stop thinking of this as a long-term solution to anything, it does perhaps have a place. It allows a strict net emission limit to be imposed early, but for some big emitters to keep going where they are for (say) ten years - at a significant cost, though less than building CO₂ pipelines. Or, put another way, if the government is determined to spend money exploring all the carbon capture options to see what they do, why not grab some for railways?