Scrapping HSTs instead of relieving voyagers

[whole diary]

[simonw]

Surely the Cross Country capacity issue does not cover the whole network, but certain corridors.

From me perspective, virtually every Cross Country I have ever got on the Bristol to Birmingham route has been overcrowded, whether

• turbostar
• voyager
• super voyager

with crowding compounded with excess

• luggage
• prams
• cycles
• scooters

The whole franchise needs looking at. The mix of commuter and long distance traveller is not well catered for.

As a fix for our area, I would like to see GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) run regular Bristol - Birmingham and Bristol - Plymouth services to take pressure (compete) with Cross Country.

[chopper1944]

I agree with Simonw, with GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) trains using the Camp Hill line and a spur to Moor Street at Bordesley

[onthecushions]

It was the same in pre-Voyager, pre-HST^▸ (High Speed Train) days with loco hauled, 7 car Mk2^▸ (Mark 2 coach) sets. Every coach into B'ham was full, including from the Oxford line.

What about GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)/WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority)) Bi-modes, open access to Manchester?

OTC

[grahame]

From Rail Magazine

Decisions on the future of stored High Speed Trains will be made in the near future, after the first seven Mk 3s were sent for scrap

A Porterbrook spokesman told RAIL that those moved west were a “trial scrapping” but confirmed that discussions needed to be made regarding the other vehicles stored at Long Marston and Laira. He said it was likely that some of those in better condition would be re-used, but that many would be scrapped.

[broadgage]

It does seem very shortsighted to scrap HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) whilst capacity remains such a problem.
HSTs are old and rapidly becoming non-standard, but SHORT TERM retention of a modest number would seem to be more sensible than rushing to scrap them.
Cross country voyagers are still overcrowded.
Short formed IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) are still a regular feature.

It would in my view be reasonable to grant a derogation regarding disabled facilities.
I would argue that an HST with seats to spare, is in practical terms a lot more accessible than a crush loaded half length DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit).
I rather doubt that a wheelchair user could even board a crush loaded IET, let alone get to the universal toilet, or to the wheelchair space. Booking wont help as bookings are voided on short formed units.

[MVR S&T]

The same rules that allow 442s to run on SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) then...

[southwest]

It does seem very shortsighted to scrap HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) whilst capacity remains such a problem.
HSTs are old and rapidly becoming non-standard, but SHORT TERM retention of a modest number would seem to be more sensible than rushing to scrap them.
Cross country voyagers are still overcrowded.
Short formed IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train) are still a regular feature.

It would in my view be reasonable to grant a derogation regarding disabled facilities.
I would argue that an HST with seats to spare, is in practical terms a lot more accessible than a crush loaded half length DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit).
I rather doubt that a wheelchair user could even board a crush loaded IET, let alone get to the universal toilet, or to the wheelchair space. Booking wont help as bookings are voided on short formed units.

It does seem crazy that ex LNER^» (London North Eastern Railway - about) hst's which have exactly the same interior as XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) are sitting idle. Although Coronavirus has had a massive impact, when things get back to normal these voyagers could be replaced. If EMR^» (East Midlands Railway, also known as EMT^» (East Midlands Trains - about) (East Midlands Trains) - about) can get dispensation until 2022 why can't XC? The government seems intent on keeping the voyager fleet within XC rather than making Arriva buy IET's or something better.

Although I suspect if the Voyagers do get freed up Grand Central will take them on to replace its 180s.

[grahame]

Although I suspect if the Voyagers do get freed up Grand Central will take them on to replace its 180s.

A Crystal Ball that gave a correct indication. From RailAdvent

Grand Central has revealed its recently-refurbished Class 221 SuperVoyager trains, which will run on its West Riding route, from Bradford Interchange to London Kings Cross.

The trains will run four times per day, seven days a week. They have 256 seats on each unit and onboard facilities that match those of the operator's 180 Adelante fleet. All trains have free on-board Wi-Fi, catering, and leg room that Grand Central describes as “generous”.

The Article does not describe the future of the Grand Central Adelante fleet

[Richard Fairhurst]

The Voyagers are additional to the Adelantes I think, at least for now. But I’m sure GC^» (Great Central Railway - link to heritage line) will be considering whether to replace the Adelantes entirely.