Tracking Rail Replacement Buses

[whole diary]

[Surrey 455]

Having had to put up with these since the beginning of December, I am growing weary with the lateness I often encounter and not knowing when the bus will actually arrive. I have submitted several delay repay claims, all but one have been accepted and that is in the process of being appealed. The departure boards at the stations, online and on apps only show the times the bus should turn up and seemingly have no way of knowing where the bus actually is. I've noticed over the last few weeks that different drivers have taken different routes to get between Bookham and Epsom. Some of which have left me scratching my head.

I wonder if it is time to properly track the progress of the bus perhaps introducing a mandatory tracking device that all rail replacement companies use. This could be a mobile phone app doubling up as a satnav with pre-programmed routes approved by the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) or rail authorities avoiding low bridges, width restrictions and other unsuitable roads. The GPS location could then get fed into the national computers to provide an estimated arrival that everyone can see on departure boards and their normal apps.

Any thoughts?

[eXPassenger]

Far too sensible an idea to be adopted.

[old original]

Shouldn't be too difficult. Most service buses & NE  are already tracked in some areas, check out

http://bustimes.org

I believe it works off the ticket machines but could be wrong..

[CyclingSid]

Part of the new administration's "to do" list is that all bus operators must make their data publicly available. I have never tried to see if the Reading Buses app shows any buses they have on bustitution services.

[grahame]

Agreed it is the "ultimate frustration" not knowing where the rail replacement bus is ... and having it show as "ON TIME" on the WebTIS / online at an unstaffed station, then to disappear off the display, with a vehicle (perhaps) appearing ten, fifteen, thirty minutes later ...

An on-vehicle tracker giving an ability (even to the call centre staff on the info point) would be a helpful easyish step and if all 'buses' must be tracked in future, perhaps every vehicle will have one on board.  But these are not standard routes and sometimes set up very much at the last minute; not sure that a system that tries to handle all rail replacement buses and give sensible forecasts would easily work - especially where there's taxis rather than buses involved.    More complex than it looks ... and ooze gonna pay for it for what should be a very occasional use?

I WOULD like to see "On Time" replaced by "Call" or something similar to move away from spreading lies incorrect information much of the time.  Does anyone have reliability to timetable stats for rail replacement buses?  I suspect they would be somewhat poor.

[bradshaw]

From the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) website published 27 December

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/passengers-to-plan-journeys-down-to-the-minute-as-big-data-revitalises-countrys-bus-use?utm_source=6fe3f37e-4217-4478-a818-6280d03860d6&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate

[GBM]

Hmm.  Shades of "Due", then "Delayed" then it vanishes from the screen, only to turn up far later? 

[Reading General]

Will there ever be a time when rail replacement is no longer necessary? How long has rail replacement be going for?

As I have stated before, bus operators love rail replacement as it's guaranteed money for not much effort. Whether people travel on it or not, as long as something runs, the box is ticked and they get paid, so concerns about the finer details aren't that important. Far more effort is spent covering jobs like this by bus operators than commercial routes run off operators own backs though, because of the lucrative money and image spreading opportunities involved, but not much effort is put into any operation of it, which is largely left to the train operator. I recall having a new double deck bus taken off me on a town service one Saturday to go for a rail replacement job, and I was given an old single deck midibus in return to run a busy Whitley route on a day the Royals were playing at home, so rail replacement money means a lot to bus operators.

It appears to me that rail operators on our privatised railway opt to do it far more often than the public railway did. When I did it in the past, there was little communication between staff of the rail operator and drivers of the buses. You were simply given a sheet of directions and unachievable times (sometimes just the trains own timetable) and left to get on with it. There was no instruction of what to do about connecting trains to meet, or even if there was one. Reading to Guildford was a route I did a few times and, from listening to what little rail staff I saw, it was mostly down to lack of staff available to run the train rather than any track works. It was an awful job to do as there would be an endless amount of 'drop us off here mate' and complaints about stuff which you had no knowledge about. Tickets were never checked, and those honest folk looking to buy them had no options. It was a lonely, confused world for all parties involved. I stopped doing them in the end and decided that commercial town work was the least hassle as a driver, as an operator, Reading Transport thought the opposite  . 

[GBM]

I've never done rail replacement but know several drivers who do in Kernow (& further afield).
They are given a timings sheet for their shift, with pick up times/departure times, etc.
There have been many ticket checks by TRO^» (Trowbridge - next trains) at various stations.
I seem to remember that tickets are checked (by drivers?) frequently.
There is always a bus supervisor to liaise with the rail controller and the drivers.
There are only station stops, nothing in between (or 'round the corner here mate').
Some are direct services (i.e, Penzance - Truro; whilst others are all stops in between, etc).
As to tracking, most (if not all in Kernow) are trackable by Drive Green or Ticketer.
Whilst on replacement the Ticketer would not be in use.

[Reading General]

I've never done rail replacement but know several drivers who do in Kernow (& further afield).
They are given a timings sheet for their shift, with pick up times/departure times, etc.
There have been many ticket checks by TRO^» (Trowbridge - next trains) at various stations.
I seem to remember that tickets are checked (by drivers?) frequently.
There is always a bus supervisor to liaise with the rail controller and the drivers.
There are only station stops, nothing in between (or 'round the corner here mate').
Some are direct services (i.e, Penzance - Truro; whilst others are all stops in between, etc).
As to tracking, most (if not all in Kernow) are trackable by Drive Green or Ticketer.
Whilst on replacement the Ticketer would not be in use.

It appears that First in Kernow are a little more organised than any rail replacement I have ever done. Mainline replacement I have never done personally only local trains. I have been a passenger fairly recently on a replacement coach from St Austell to Plymouth and it was very well organised by all parties involved, and the fact that it was coaches rather than town buses meant that everybody let the driver get on with it rather than pestering him to get off en route. More recently I was on a train from Cornwall that was terminated at Newton Abbot because the sea wall was closed for a period. Replacement road transport was provided on to Tivvy Parkway for passengers through to Reading, but I took one look at the old single deck rattler on the forecourt of the station and, after discussing what the problem was with the station staff, decided I would sit it out and wait for the line to open. Glad I did too as the line opened 15 minutes later and I was able to ride on the stopping train to Exeter St. Davids and catch a fast staring from there. As we shot through Tivvy I saw the old rattling bus unloading in the forecourt, I was quite pleased with myself.

As far as the road replacement tracking is concerned it should probably be down to the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) to contract a company with vehicles than can be tracked by GPS rather than the ticket machine stop point passing system but I guess it depends on what sort of train its replacing.

[GBM]

These days in Kernow, anything new is used for replacement work.  As you said earlier, a new bus is taken off you for replacement work & you are given an old Trident (or worse!).
Generally, when available, Truronian coaches are also used.
No idea as to whether they are trackable tho'

[Reading General]

Our public transport, in all types, is bizarre sometimes. The fact that we farm out the latest our local transport has to offer to replace what should be the principle interurban mover seems ridiculous.

[Reading General]

And that our potential, principal interurban mover is completely reliant on road transport when things go wrong. Makes you consider how disjointed public transport is in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).

What happened in the past when the railways were dominant?

[Richard Fairhurst]

What happened in the past when the railways were dominant?

In the past there were many more diversionary routes available...

[grahame]

What happened in the past when the railways were dominant?

In the past there were many more diversionary routes available...

I also suspect that a great deal of engineering work was carried out in a more dangerous way - with neighbouring tracks still open, and even between the passage of trains. This sort of thing wouldn't happen these days:

The Board of Trade report, published on 21 June 1865, found that for the previous eight to ten weeks a team of eight men and a foreman had been renewing the timbers under the track on viaducts between Headcorn and Staplehurst railway stations. The track would be removed when no train was due. However, on 9 June the foreman, John Benge, had misread his timetable as to the schedule that day of the tidal boat train, which ran at a different time depending on the tide in the English Channel.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staplehurst_rail_crash