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Author Topic: How to encourage people to ditch the car for other methods of transport  (Read 2611 times)
ellendune
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« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2020, 05:07:22 pm »

All good reasons from a bus operator's viewpoint to keep the two service separate - even if doing so persuades more people to drive. The bus industry struggles enough to scrape a living without giving up a cash cow like this, doesn't it?  Grin

All good reasons why our current bus regulatory system is broken - outside London where because they are so "very very special" they have a different regulatory system that seems to be actually fit for purpose. 
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Reading General
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« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2020, 06:59:54 pm »

All good reasons from a bus operator's viewpoint to keep the two service separate - even if doing so persuades more people to drive. The bus industry struggles enough to scrape a living without giving up a cash cow like this, doesn't it?  Grin

All good reasons why our current bus regulatory system is broken - outside London where because they are so "very very special" they have a different regulatory system that seems to be actually fit for purpose. 
This is it. Why on earth London was exempt from this form of free enterprise I do not know, but it's highlighted our two tier country, London and then the rest of us. Today more than ever, the noticeable effect that public transport can have on an economy is clear to see. I wonder what position we would be in if deregulation hadn't occurred, as members of the public we would probably realise we had the choice in transport form to move about. How do we get back to a regulated service? Can councils work together across area boundaries on transport without politics coming into it? I certainly wouldn't put any current bus management in charge of arranging services as their motivation is retail based. Dividing areas of the country up into regions to control transport services can be complicated too as transport tends to sort out its own popular routes and journeys.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2020, 01:35:23 pm »

We thought of ditching the car today to visit Stonehenge.  A quick look at NRE gave a return fare for 2 of £38 with railcards from Severn Tunnel Jn, which didn't seem bad, and with National Trust membership we can get in free.  Great! A cheap(ish) day out. But we soon decided to drive when we saw we would be charged a further £32 return for the 10 mile bus trip to the Stones from Salisbury. Ouch!

Maybe if this was an obscure tourist attraction that might be justified, but for a world famous attraction with over 1.5m visitors a year it seems like excessive profiteering. Surely it's an obvious service to have through ticketing with the railways, with cheaper through fares and railcards valid too to encourage modal shift.  (It might even encourage Russian visitors to extend their stay beyond admiring the spectacle of the tallest cathedral spire in Europe too.)

P.S. English Heritage could make the shuttle buses from the visitor centre electric too, as the low speed stop start operation must be very inefficient and emissions heavy.

You can of course take the X4 from Salisbury to Larkhill then walk the mile or so down Byway 12 ('The Drove') to Stonehenge. Then, near the 'junction' with the access road to the stones, you can walk along the permissive path, which runs behind the old car park. This path then runs past the stones just a few feet back from where ticket paying visitors get to walk.

Free access to the stones. Should any hi-vis clad English Heritage staff challenge you then you just have to say you are using the permissive path. It's between you and your conscience how much you donate to English Heritage for looking at something that was gifted to the nation!
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Celestial
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« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2020, 03:20:23 pm »


You can of course take the X4 from Salisbury to Larkhill then walk the mile or so down Byway 12 ('The Drove') to Stonehenge. Then, near the 'junction' with the access road to the stones, you can walk along the permissive path, which runs behind the old car park. This path then runs past the stones just a few feet back from where ticket paying visitors get to walk.

Free access to the stones. Should any hi-vis clad English Heritage staff challenge you then you just have to say you are using the permissive path. It's between you and your conscience how much you donate to English Heritage for looking at something that was gifted to the nation!

I didn't research beyond direct buses, nor would I suspect most prospective visitors. Given we decided to walk the mile from the visitor centre to enjoy the view across the field as you approach the stones, the X4 sounds like it would have been a good alternative.  Maybe the lesson there is to consult on here before going, but that doesn't address the wider issue of how expensive the direct bus is.

We have NT membership, so entry to the site was free anyway for us.  We did see the permissive path - makes sense as of course there used to be a road where the path is - though I think if I was making a once in a lifetime visit then I would probably pay to get up close and do a full circle.

One other thing struck me - the queues of traffic on the A303, and that on a Saturday in January.  On looking closely, much of the queue seemed to be because of cars travelling very slowly (and thus building up a big gap to the car in front), before accelerating away once past the stones. I did wonder how much of the congestion would disappear if some sort of screen was put up.   Would spoil the view of course, but the tunnel will do that too for through traffic, cost somewhat more, and be environmentally more damaging.
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broadgage
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« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2020, 11:16:17 pm »

Russians would not to wish to stay longer in or near Salisbury, as the damp climate can result in serious illness.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2020, 09:25:47 am »

There was a joke that you don't run for the bus if you see it at the stop in either London or Bristol. In London, that's because there will be another one along, and in Bristol it's because it will still be at the stop when you walk over.   
Plays nicely to Bristol's self-image. Trip-hop city, the nearest Britain has to the Land of Smiles, or maybe a Caribbean island? Shame about the weather...
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Tuesday had come down through Dundrum and Foster Avenue, brine-fresh from sea-travel, a corn-yellow sun-drench that called forth the bees at an incustomary hour to their bumbling.
Marlburian
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« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2020, 01:36:27 pm »

For a very long time I've lived a ten-minute walk away from Tilehurst Station and over the years have noticed the car-dependence of various commuting neighbours.

Until about ten (?) years ago, one could park in side-roads near the station or even on Oxford Road itself. This made life very difficult for residents in Oak Tree Road especially and to a lesser extent those in Carlisle Road. Eventually yellow lines were put down in these streets - and also in Elsley Road (which, TBH, is wide enough to accommodate parked cars on either side).

Before that happened,  a neighbour had a Fiat 500 just to go to the station and back, Occasionally he would offer me a lift home, but by the time he'd got the car going and, in winter de-misted (and sometimes de-iced) it, I could have walked home.

Another neighbour, in his 30s, would drive down and park his car on Oxford Road - until a vehicle pursued by the police crashed into it. (It was about that time that exasperated residents painted their own yellow lines.)

An erstwhile next-door neighbour, also in his 30s, would use the station car-park. One day, we emerged from the station together, me wondering whether he would offer me a lift. He didn't, and off he went to retrieve his car, whilst I walked home: I confess that this was at a brisker rate than usual, but he drove past when we were 20 and 25 seconds respectively from our front doors.

(Another neighbour would use his car daily to collect his newspaper from a shop seven minutes' walk away.)

Marlburian
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eightonedee
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« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2020, 10:26:25 pm »

Some of us made of sterner stuff  Grin used to walk from City Road to the station most days up and down Kentwood Hill - but I was in my late 20s (a long time ago.....)
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grahame
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« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2020, 01:46:29 pm »

Natural England & the Environment Agency have warned 2020 will be "the last chance" to tackle climate change.

Zero progress has been made in reducing climate-harming emissions from the UK’s most polluting sector, according to new government figures. In 2017 levels of greenhouse gases from cars and other forms of transport did not fall at all. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/transport-pollution-greenhouse-gas-emissions-cars-climate-change-global-warming-a8763961.html

How can we encourage and get people to use non car transport more such as trains, buses, bikes or walk thus reducing their carbon footprint?

I was thinking how we can specifically target commuters as many of them near me over 95% of them travel to work with only 1 person in the car. Plus the pollution is always worse at rush hour. I am hoping to do some surveys this year to monitor this and get a percentage....

From The BBC this morning

Quote
Bath Clean Air Zone: City agrees charge for polluting vehicles

A clean air zone (CAZ) charge on vehicles in Bath has been approved in a bid to improve the city's air quality.

Private cars will be exempt but the most polluting commercial vehicles such as buses and lorries will be charged.

Bath and North East Somerset Council (Banes) voted to introduce a £9 daily fee for high-emission commercial vans and £100 for HGV and buses.

The scheme now needs final government approval but the council still aims to launch the scheme on 4 November.
Private hire vehicles and taxis will also have to pay £9-a-day charge.

I'm pretty sure that the bus routes - let's take this as a personal example - from Melksham into Bath are not obscenely profitable.  First run 4 vehicles on the D3, Faresaver 6 on the x72 and Swindons Bus Company 1 on the x76.  That's down from 11 to 8 vehicles on a Saturday and 2 vehicles on a Sunday. So that's a potential cost of £325,000 per annum for the one corridor.

Actually, it's not that bad.  I believe that "Euro 6" buses are not high emission and will be excluded from the £100 charge - but either new or upgraded from existing buses, they cost a fair amount of dosh and whilst there are quite a few around, there are also quite a few older vehicles not converted / replaced.

Logic for operators (easier for those who run a whole network of routes):
1. Switch high emission vehicles onto routes that do NOT go into the Bath zone
2. Replace half hourly single deckers with hourly double deckers
3. Terminate routes outside the city (e.g. at the Park and Ride) or withdraw them completely
4. For routes supported by neighbouring councils, ask for additional support funding
5. Increase the fares and blame BaNES council  Grin

Government grants are available to help convert bus fleets to Euro 6. Without this fully funding all necessary conversions before the start date on November that BaNES are talking about, I don't see how it will encourage more people to used the bus or lead to cleaner air.   Rather I see a reduction of the number of buses - admittedly "dirty" ones - to be replaced by a whole queue of cars which might individually not best as dirty as than bus ...

Depressing conclusion.  I would welcome someone pointing out that I'm so, so wrong ...



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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2020, 06:57:23 pm »

I'm not going to comment on the economics of running bus lines, cos I know virtually nothing about it. But whenever these "clean air zones" are proposed exempting private vehicles, as in Bath and earlier in Bristol (though not adopted in that form), I think they're simply missing the point. It might achieve clean(-ish) air for a while but there are so many other benefits from persuading people not to drive so much: to the local economy, people's physical and mental health, sense of community and more.
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Tuesday had come down through Dundrum and Foster Avenue, brine-fresh from sea-travel, a corn-yellow sun-drench that called forth the bees at an incustomary hour to their bumbling.
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