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Author Topic: Buses v car and CO2 emissions  (Read 1559 times)
Bus_Lady
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« on: January 12, 2020, 09:35:46 am »

I recently revived the below message from a former First Bus driver. Can I have your thoughts on the validity of it? I was wondering if we could use it as part of a article in a local newspaper / on social media but need to be sure it is correct.

Also any advice on what the arguments against it would be (e.g buses often run empty one way after the bus is full going the other way etc)....

Here is some number crunching to show how much of a positive impact to air pollution that could be achieved if more people traveled to Bath by bus.

Most cars travelling to Bath only contains 1 person the driver

The average emissions produced by each car based on new cars produced in 2015 is 122.1g/km of CO2 (the real figure would be much higher if you include Baths bumper to bumper traffic)

A single deck Volvo B7 bus like the ones used on the D2 produces an average of 1406g/km of CO2

Now if you filled that Volvo B7 bus with all them car drivers including standing, the bus will carry over 70 people meaning per person the bus would only produce 20g/km 1/6th of the emissions compared to a car and that 1 bus would remove 7.1kg/km of CO2 which also takes into account the buses emissions too.

Now stick with me here 😂

Just 4 single deck Volvo B7 buses full of single passenger car drivers would remove 280 single passenger cars which if lined up and being generous here and giving them a 2mtr gap between them would fill the London Road from the Batheaston Bypass roundabout to the traffic lights onto Bathwick St that's 1 mile of cars!

It would also remove a total of 24.4kg/km of CO2 which includes taking into account the 4 buses would produce 5.6kg/km.

Now imagine what the figure would be if every car was removed from city centres around the country and everyone used public transport to travel into the centre instead whether from home or using a P&R (Park and Ride)

Cleaner air, cheaper fares and a more reliable service due to less traffic on the roads into the city!
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broadgage
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« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2020, 02:41:40 pm »

Sounds a bit optimistic to assume 70 passengers on a single decker. It is no doubt possible, but far from pleasant and unlikely to encourage bus travel.

OTOH (On The Other Hand), passenger miles could be reduced by bus travel. Take as an example a two mile school run. Eight miles driving a day. If instead the little darlings got the bus, not only are the emissions less per mile, but the miles run are halved from eight a day to four a day.

An electric car would be better than the diesel bus, but an electric bus entirely possible and better still.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
LiskeardRich
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« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2020, 06:27:52 pm »

A Volvo B7 isn’t low emissions compared to something like an Enviro 400 double decker per person. Enviro 400 can carry 106 people including standees. There are even greener options .
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grahame
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« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2020, 07:58:00 am »

I fear the assumption of full buses is a dangerous one and ironic when we're talking 4 and 5 seat cars with just 1.2 passengers in each.  Also noting the cars are single journeys and parked up in the city for the day, where the buses run back out (empty) in the morning for the next passenger load ... vv in the afternoon.

But then the car figures used are for newly produced vehicles and as the original post suggest likely to be much higher bearing in mind Bath's congestion.

Is anyone brave enough to attempt to factor in issues such as these ... I'm guessing at a moderate improvement (but no more) on the immediate replacement of 20 car transits by a bus transit, but a potential fallout in reduced congestion which gives a bonus of all remaining journeys being 'cleaner'. That's if the road space freed up isn't simpley refilled by more people driving in to make use of the now-available parking.
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Rhydgaled
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2020, 10:01:00 am »

Most cars travelling to Bath only contains 1 person the driver

The average emissions produced by each car based on new cars produced in 2015 is 122.1g/km of CO2 (the real figure would be much higher if you include Baths bumper to bumper traffic)

A single deck Volvo B7 bus like the ones used on the D2 produces an average of 1406g/km of CO2

Now if you filled that Volvo B7 bus with all them car drivers including standing, the bus will carry over 70 people meaning per person the bus would only produce 20g/km
I've never been too keen on CO2 per passenger measurements. A fully-laden bus will of course still produce the same amount of CO2 (actually slightly more due to carrying more weight) as one with just the driver. What matters is reducing total CO2 emmissions.

Taking your figure for the car (122.1g/km of CO2) and multiplying it by 12 gives 1,465.2gCO2/km which is slightly higher than the figure you gave for the bus. Therefore, if the bus is carrying at least 12 pepole who would have otherwise have driven a car the bus is helping to reduce CO2.
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Don't DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
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« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2020, 09:49:59 am »

From BaNES Council

Quote
Notice is hereby given that the Bath and North East Somerset Council in pursuance of the provisions of section 14 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 intends to make an order of the effect of which will be to prohibit temporarily to vehicles in the lengths of roads specified in the attached schedules 1, 2, 3.

This order is required because of the likelihood of danger to the public, or of serious damage to the Cleveland Bridge and will be operative from Monday 3rd February 2020 for a maximum period of 18 Months.

ALTERNATIVE ROUTES –

Diversion route for vehicles over 18 tonnes:

To & from the west of Bath: A36 from city centre to junction with A4 (Twerton Fork); A4 to junction with A4174 Ring Road (Hicks Gate); A4174 to junction with A420 (Warmley); A420 to junction with A46 (Cold Ashton).

To & from east of Bath: A4 from city centre to junction with A46; A4 to junction with A350 (Chippenham); A350 to junction with A36 (Warminster)

Not stated as being a "clean air" move - but I'm sure that BaNES council has not missed the side effect of this order which routes HGVs currently passing though the City on the A46 / A36 route from the M4 to Southmapton through Saltford to the west, or through Melksham and Westbury to the east.

Do Coffee Shop members feel it's a co-incidence that the alternative route descriptions have chosen to describe those routes without mention of the places where the diverted heavies will be a major concern?


I should add that in Melksham we have 2 bridges across the River Avon.   The "Town Bridge" is to be closed to road vehicle traffic in one direction from 10th February to 5th May to have railings fitted, pushing even more traffic onto that remaining open bridge ... interesting to see what that does to buses - all (bar one per day) use the Town Bridge, and the A350 route / other bridge is a long way round, missing out some key stops.
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