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Author Topic: Extinction Rebellion UK - May 2020  (Read 18391 times)
broadgage
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« Reply #60 on: October 28, 2021, 11:07:17 am »

Protest and blockade underway at an oil refinery, with the traditional pink boat.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-59074870

Probably wont amount to much.

And why PINK boats and other obstructions ? I thought that pink was more related to gay rights and the like, with green being more connected to environmental protests.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #61 on: October 28, 2021, 12:06:02 pm »

Protest and blockade underway at an oil refinery, with the traditional pink boat.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-59074870

Probably wont amount to much.

And why PINK boats and other obstructions ? I thought that pink was more related to gay rights and the like, with green being more connected to environmental protests.

You're sooooooooo last century Broadgage (quite possibly 19th!) It's all about rainbows now!
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broadgage
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« Reply #62 on: October 28, 2021, 01:31:18 pm »

Well I do date from about the middle of the last century !
Wartime rationing ended not long before I was invented.
I remember the severe winter of 1963.
I remember steam locomotives in daily use, not preserved.
And the good old days of cheap electricity "A penny a unit and the more you want the better" And that was an OLD penny a unit.
I remember old half pennies, and farthings being only recently extinct.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
ChrisB
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« Reply #63 on: October 28, 2021, 01:38:10 pm »

You & I must be about the same age! Can clearly remember playing in the snow of ‘63 on the beach on Romney Marsh…
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TonyK
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« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2021, 04:32:13 pm »

Well I do date from about the middle of the last century !
Wartime rationing ended not long before I was invented.
I remember the severe winter of 1963.
I remember steam locomotives in daily use, not preserved.
And the good old days of cheap electricity "A penny a unit and the more you want the better" And that was an OLD penny a unit.
I remember old half pennies, and farthings being only recently extinct.

Farthings were still legal tender until I started school, rendering the arithmetic textbooks obsolete, but still in use. "Ignore a farthing, and call three farthings a ha'penny" - I wondered how the teacher knew the answers. In 1963, I lived outside Oldham, on the moors. It snowed a lot. Somewhere in the family archive is a photo my dad took of a friend's bungalow, with just the chimney pot showing.
For electric, I recall my grandma's front room light with this sort of Christmas tree of smoking Bakelite adapters hanging below, with the iron and radio plugged in, and a light bulb that made the room darker when switched on.
Steam trains out of Mumps station were the big treat, but for actual transport, the trams are faster and cleaner, and a lot more convenient.
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broadgage
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« Reply #65 on: April 02, 2022, 09:04:28 pm »

Protests against the oil industry resume.
Not certain if this is XR (Crossrail) or some closely related group.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-60967159
I agree with them that we should not be seeking new oil sources but should instead focus on renewable energy.

We cant drop fossil fuels overnight, but should in my view accept a steady decline in availability and look for alternatives.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
ChrisB
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« Reply #66 on: April 03, 2022, 11:48:40 am »

Boris should please them then as he’sannouncing policy of nuclear & windfarms next week
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ellendune
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« Reply #67 on: April 03, 2022, 01:19:03 pm »

Boris should please them then as he’sannouncing policy of nuclear & windfarms next week

also some more drilling for oil and gas it is rumoured. 
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TonyK
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« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2022, 03:26:19 pm »

Boris should please them then as he’sannouncing policy of nuclear & windfarms next week

also some more drilling for oil and gas it is rumoured. 

Might all change by the time he's finished reading the polling. Onshore windfarms are a lot less popular than they were before any were built, and before Covid had the city dwellers taking holidays in the English countryside. Home produced gas is in the ascendancy because of the troubles abroad, and nuclear is rising up the popularity charts as a good way of not having to rely on hangmen, henchmen and headsmen to keep the lights on.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #69 on: April 03, 2022, 03:49:03 pm »

Hmmm. I'm not sure that another U-turn on fracking to produce the onshore gas would be popular!
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TonyK
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« Reply #70 on: April 03, 2022, 03:58:17 pm »

Hmmm. I'm not sure that another U-turn on fracking to produce the onshore gas would be popular!

I had in mind the onshore wind, but anything can happen these days. Cuadrilla have been told not to cap the wells just yet.
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« Reply #71 on: April 04, 2022, 12:39:41 pm »

Hmmm. I'm not sure that another U-turn on fracking to produce the onshore gas would be popular!

Lack of gas and power cuts would be less popular than a U-turn on allowing fracking, though
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ellendune
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« Reply #72 on: April 04, 2022, 06:43:00 pm »

One problem with nuclear is the lead time.  At least 10 years to come on line.

New gas and oil also have fairly long lead times. 

Onshore wind less so. 

Missing in the discussion is tidal power!  A Mersey tidal scheme is proposed and a schemes off the Isle of Wight and Anglsey/Yns Mon are at or nearing construction stage.  Tidal is predictable renewable energy.  Barrage schemes have long lead times, but moored turbines of the type in the two current schemes could be rolled out fairly quickly. 

The quickest win is more insulation!
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TonyK
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« Reply #73 on: April 04, 2022, 09:11:55 pm »

One problem with nuclear is the lead time.  At least 10 years to come on line.

New gas and oil also have fairly long lead times. 

Onshore wind less so. 

Missing in the discussion is tidal power!  A Mersey tidal scheme is proposed and a schemes off the Isle of Wight and Anglsey/Yns Mon are at or nearing construction stage.  Tidal is predictable renewable energy.  Barrage schemes have long lead times, but moored turbines of the type in the two current schemes could be rolled out fairly quickly. 

The quickest win is more insulation!

Agreed on the insulation, but I wouldn't advise people to sit around waiting for someone else to do it.

Nuclear does have a long lead-in, although now we have two companies wanting to build small modular reactors, things may move a bit more sharply. We could be looking at the first couple by the end of the decade. Big nuke is a longer job, and I wonder if the country has sufficient people with the required skills to build two at the same time. Hinkley C has over 20,000 people working on the project, and we lost a generation of nuclear experts by stopping building after Sizewell B went live in 1995. Hinkley C is therefore something of a training project, with 1,000 apprentices, in the hope that the next plant will not take so long. Sites are available, next to existing or decommissioned nuclear plants. The third generation of reactors is a lot more efficient than our early Magnox fleet, in large part because they are not primarily for making plutonium for bombs.

Tidal power has proved elusive. There is The Sea, mighty and powerful, to be feared, admired and respected. There is also the sea, which old ladies and small children paddle in on holiday. There is a lot of energy, but it is rather spread out in most places, and nobody has really come up with anything workable - yet. Barrages and lagoons are a popular subject among some. They suffer the problems of long lead in times, the NIMBE (not in my blinking estuary) effect, and significant uncertainty over potential environmental effects. I don't subscribe to the usual conspiracy theories about them being blocked by oil companies, preferring the idea that financiers and insurers see the risks as too great. After all, if it turns out that the doom and gloom brigade were wrong, you might make a 5% return on your investment for a decent length of time, but if they were right, the economic disaster will be put down to you. There is yet to be a large scale trial to show one way or the other. I rather doubt that the technology will ever be widespread, but I am ready to be proven wrong.

Onshore wind causes, in my limited experience, more trouble than almost anything but fracking. The case I am familiar with took nearly 14 years from initial idea to subsidies being generated. The local Lib Dem MP (Member of Parliament) lost his seat after supporting the idea, at a time when his party was in the ascendancy. He was otherwise well regarded and popular, so we assume it was that. The 8 parish councils affected all said no to the idea, the district planning meeting threw it out 13-0, and a meeting of the whole district council confirmed that vote by a 3-1 majority. All this democracy counted for nothing, when one man, a planning inspector, overturned the decision. I would say build them if certain conditions are met - support by all parish councils that will see it, along with any national park authorities and the local planning authority, with no objections from anyone living within a radius equal to ten times the height from floor to blade tip. That would not be a total ban, but would have the same effect.

The one really fast energy project of recent decades was the South Wales gas pipeline to Tirley, along with Milford Haven LNG terminal and three special ships. That was all done within 4 years, before a lot of protest groups really had time to organise. Some say the lights would have gone off had it not been done. There is little to see these days, but it does show that some things can happen quickly when there is a need.

I am hoping that importing gas will be only temporary until we have built a proper energy policy and structure. The shocks of the past few months seem to have concentrated minds somewhat.
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ellendune
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« Reply #74 on: April 04, 2022, 10:51:49 pm »

Tidal power has proved elusive. There is The Sea, mighty and powerful, to be feared, admired and respected. There is also the sea, which old ladies and small children paddle in on holiday. There is a lot of energy, but it is rather spread out in most places, and nobody has really come up with anything workable - yet. Barrages and lagoons are a popular subject among some. They suffer the problems of long lead in times, the NIMBE (not in my blinking estuary) effect, and significant uncertainty over potential environmental effects. I don't subscribe to the usual conspiracy theories about them being blocked by oil companies, preferring the idea that financiers and insurers see the risks as too great. After all, if it turns out that the doom and gloom brigade were wrong, you might make a 5% return on your investment for a decent length of time, but if they were right, the economic disaster will be put down to you. There is yet to be a large scale trial to show one way or the other. I rather doubt that the technology will ever be widespread, but I am ready to be proven wrong.

Tidal is more than barriers and lagoons. The current projects in the Solent and Anglesey do not have lagoons or barriers they are tidal turbines.  The Solent is under construction and funding for the land works on Anglesey has been secured sop construction can start.  Assuming these systems function reliably then it could be a game changer for tidal power as it substantially reduces the investment and lead times. 
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