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Author Topic: Extinction Rebellion UK - May 2020  (Read 11935 times)
broadgage
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« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2021, 11:41:03 pm »

Any thoughts on what XR (Crossrail) might get up to in the next couple of weeks of action?

Having seen the state of some of those parading around London today, I'd hope bathing is factored into it at some point soon.

Only with rainwater, either cold or heated with solar energy.https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284276480275?hash=item423032d913:g:wHgAAOSw-91g-Wfx
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
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« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2021, 10:30:05 am »

Any thoughts on what XR (Crossrail) might get up to in the next couple of weeks of action?

Just another round of alienating ordinary people and putting them off the climate change discussion. For the XR leadership, the true objective is to destabilise the justice system, and therefore society in general, by a programme of civil disobedience that overfills the prisons. It isn't working in Belarus or Hong Kong.
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Now, please!
broadgage
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« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2021, 02:24:38 pm »

There does seem to be growing support for extinction rebellion, despite the disruption.
The scale of the recent flooding in Europe, and the number of major forest fires worldwide are arguably concentrating public opinion on climate change.

There is a general view that "direct action" is the way to achieve major change, this may or may not be true, but is widely believed.

A comparison frequently made is with the now much reduced fur trade. Was this achieved by peaceful and democratic means ? No it was not, fire bombs in shops selling fur coats did the job.

Most people whom I know are concerned by climate change and believe that something should be done. Far fewer are willing to make significant changes to THEIR OWN life styles.
Joining a protest is far easier than giving up flying and driving, and reducing home energy use.

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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Reading General
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« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2021, 03:55:11 pm »

I think the point is that government action is required, the time for pointing fingers at individuals is over. Take domestic plastic use for example, if companies and retailers didn’t have the option of that packaging then we wouldn’t have to sort through it at home. Or travel, if we had money spent on other options of transport then we wouldn’t drive cars. Because of the policies of the past 40 years many of the other ways of doing things aren’t available anymore. This country as a whole just isn’t willing to admit it was a mistake….. yet!

This government’s current thinking is that the decision should be by the individual rather than changes in policies. It’s still treated like the debate of climate change happening or not is ongoing. By disruption, Extinction Rebellion keep this point in the government, industry’s and the public’s eye. If they didn’t then we would get complacent again and sit around waiting for electric cars to become affordable believing that’s all we have to do. People will not change if the option isn’t available. The disruption is negligible in comparison to the disruptive world that our children and grandchildren may experience when they grow old, and the disruption is well advertised so you can either join in or avoid it. I would personally encourage joining in, even if this is simply accepting what a group of people want to do to campaign make our lives better. You may not like their tactics but nobody joining extinction rebellion is obliged to join in with civil disobedience.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2021, 05:34:44 pm »

I think the point is - most accept that they have a right to demonstrate, but not for a fortnight. Maybe a day in each city, but a fortnight screwing up Londoners right to go about their business also is over the top.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2021, 05:36:31 pm »

Not just government action on a national scale, it won't really be effective unless it's on a global scale.
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« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2021, 05:40:50 pm »

I think the point is - most accept that they have a right to demonstrate, but not for a fortnight. Maybe a day in each city, but a fortnight screwing up Londoners right to go about their business also is over the top.
I really don’t see how p*****g people off is going to change people’s attitude towards climate change. I think it has the opposite effect.
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Reading General
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« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2021, 06:25:45 pm »

Not just government action on a national scale, it won't really be effective unless it's on a global scale.

Of course. That’s why Extinction Rebellion is an international organisation, but here we can only lobby our own government to change their policies. If they change, this will of course will have a knock on effect to other countries as like it or not we are still an influence on the world, although I’m not sure why. Much like it’s time to stop pointing the finger at individuals and their carbon footprint (an idea created by an oil company), it’s also time to stop blaming the rest of the world for the reason not to adapt your own country.

Traffic is just as disruptive to me if we are down to an individual level, it p***es me off  in it and passing it on foot or bicycle, but I realise there is a bigger picture that others are a factor of, including myself. Additionally, disruption comes in many positive and negative forms. The Reading festival is disruption for a few days and I avoid the town, it doesn’t mean I want to see an end to it being put on (although I personally feel this year isn’t necessary for obvious reasons). Football every other Saturday could be disruptive for those not at the game but would they want to see the end of it (possibly if they’re a Headington United, Aldersh*t or Swinedon fan). The point is not to change an individuals mind on climate change as it’s already a factor involved in our lives, the point is continued pressure on the government to change for the better. If some don’t like the disruption of Extinction Rebellion lobby your MP (Member of Parliament) to change the government’s outlook on climate change.
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grahame
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« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2021, 10:09:10 pm »

I think the point is - most accept that they have a right to demonstrate, but not for a fortnight. Maybe a day in each city, but a fortnight screwing up Londoners right to go about their business also is over the top.
I really don’t see how p*****g people off is going to change people’s attitude towards climate change. I think it has the opposite effect.

Thought. Extinction Rebellion have a nightmare choice to make. Climate change is so fundamental that the issue needs almost beating into people. In practice, though, it can't be beaten in and has to be taken as far as it can be before it turns negative.  So where is that line that takes a campaign that's a good and heavily pressed one into an irritant that has negative effect when repeated yet AGAIN.
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broadgage
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« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2021, 10:37:46 pm »

The best XR (Crossrail) stunt in my view was the floating of a partially submerged house down the Thames.

The worst in my view was climbing on top of an underground train. Electric public transport should be encouraged.

The best statement in my view in the current protest
"SOME PEOPLE OBJECT TO ROAD CLOSURES,
SOME PEOPLE IN GERMANY DONT HAVE ROADS"
With a picture of a town in Germany, including the roads destroyed by flooding.

Cant find a link to it.
 
Wording above is reliant on my memory and might not be totally accurate, but certainly similar.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2021, 11:58:41 pm by broadgage » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2021, 10:04:03 am »

I think the point is - most accept that they have a right to demonstrate, but not for a fortnight. Maybe a day in each city, but a fortnight screwing up Londoners right to go about their business also is over the top.
I really don’t see how p*****g people off is going to change people’s attitude towards climate change. I think it has the opposite effect.

Thought. Extinction Rebellion have a nightmare choice to make. Climate change is so fundamental that the issue needs almost beating into people. In practice, though, it can't be beaten in and has to be taken as far as it can be before it turns negative.  So where is that line that takes a campaign that's a good and heavily pressed one into an irritant that has negative effect when repeated yet AGAIN.

Oh dear. Nightmare choices indeed.

https://www.unilad.co.uk/news/outrage-after-extinction-rebellion-founder-reveals-what-car-she-drives/
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Reading General
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« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2021, 10:30:08 am »

This is pointing fingers at individuals similar to further up the thread and avoiding discussing changes in policy. We all contribute in some way to damaging the climate, it cannot be avoided because of circumstances. It’s not anyone’s fault, it’s a world we have been brought into. By suggesting somebody is not practicing what they preach is completely missing the point. It’s simply media diversion and point scoring to highlight the ‘you’re not changing so why should I’ debate that has rattled on for decades delaying what we know is happening, because people are under the impression it will take away privilege. This is something we are all in together, not a select few who can afford to be green if they choose to. The subject of climate change by now should not be political. We should be debating how to change, not deciding who’s doing the right or wrong thing. This is attempting to divide and pit the public against each other, which is what the media do best in this country.
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Timmer
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« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2021, 10:54:41 am »

Thought. Extinction Rebellion have a nightmare choice to make. Climate change is so fundamental that the issue needs almost beating into people. In practice, though, it can't be beaten in and has to be taken as far as it can be before it turns negative.  So where is that line that takes a campaign that's a good and heavily pressed one into an irritant that has negative effect when repeated yet AGAIN.
With Covid and Afghanistan dominating the headlines, the timing hasn’t been great if they are looking for the kind of publicity similar to what they received in 2019. Yes I know these things take months of planning so how would you know what events are in the news. Though it was kind of obvious that Covid would still be.

The police appear to be a bit more proactive this time around moving the protests on even though the current laws mean that they have to police the protests with one hand tied behind their back. Outside of London, many probably won’t even know protests are taking place.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2021, 11:05:18 am »

This is something we are all in together, not a select few who can afford to be green if they choose to. The subject of climate change by now should not be political. We should be debating how to change, not deciding who’s doing the right or wrong thing. This is attempting to divide and pit the public against each other, which is what the media do best in this country.

Can't agree more with this - shame XR (Crossrail) aren't doing more in that direction.

Outside of London, many probably won’t even know protests are taking place.

Quite. If XR want to make their point heard, better get around the country then, rather than concentrate in just one conurbation. Along with idiotic protests like climbing on elecric public transport, they aren't doing themselves any favours in getting the public onside.
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broadgage
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« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2021, 11:18:20 am »

It is regrettable that they drive a diesel car and even more regrettable that they flew 11,000 miles for a holiday. Like many, they claim not to be able to afford an electric car. Would NOT taking the the holiday have paid for an EV ?

And yes, wider policies ARE more important than pointing the finger at one person, but founders of XR (Crossrail) should perhaps set an example.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 11:25:23 am by broadgage » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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