Snagging - where are timetable tweaks needed?

[whole diary]

[JontyMort]

1. "Worcester to Bristol is a mess"

OK, since that quotation is from me, I’ll bite. The main problem with the Malvern/Worcester-Cheltenham-Gloucester-Bristol service is the two-hour frequency. The second problem is that the service is trying to do too much. At the northern end, it needs to provide connections to XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) at Cheltenham. At the southern end, it’s providing a local service from Gloucester to Bristol. But it doesn’t need to do the whole route. So if you were inventing the thing from scratch, it would be split - Malvern/Worcester to Cheltenham, and Gloucester to Bristol.

But the problem with that is that Cheltenham is very ill-equipped to deal with terminating trains, and already has as many as it can handle (from London and Wales). The chance to alleviate this by having two terminating platforms for services from the south (coupled with a good new car park) was blown a few years ago.

It might be worth splitting the service at Gloucester, but again I’m not sure about the station’s capacity.

[Richard Fairhurst]

OK, since that quotation is from me, I’ll bite. The main problem with the Malvern/Worcester-Cheltenham-Gloucester-Bristol service is the two-hour frequency. The second problem is that the service is trying to do too much. At the northern end, it needs to provide connections to XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) at Cheltenham. At the southern end, it’s providing a local service from Gloucester to Bristol. But it doesn’t need to do the whole route. So if you were inventing the thing from scratch, it would be split - Malvern/Worcester to Cheltenham, and Gloucester to Bristol.

But it's also a very, very useful direct service from the Vale of Evesham / Worcester / Cotswold Line area to Bristol, and the connections available at Temple Meads. I've used it many times for that.

Forcing a change at Cheltenham would ruin that. If CrossCountry were stopping their Bristol trains at Worcestershire Parkway then that might provide an alternative, but it's only the Nottingham-Cardiffs that will be stopping there.

Worcester-Bristol just needs to be hourly.

[ChrisB]

The CLPG^» (Cotswold Line Promotion Group - about) will be taking up the Cotiswold Line/Worcester-Bristol issues & I'm taking up the Oxford area issues (incl Reading/Oxford issues above) on February 25th at the East Timetable meeting.

Incidentally, the CLPG has already heard that Worcester-Bristol won't become hourly until a new franchise includes it - there just isn't any available stock in the current franchise.

[eightonedee]

The CLPG^» (Cotswold Line Promotion Group - about) will be taking up the Cotiswold Line/Worcester-Bristol issues & I'm taking up the Oxford area issues (incl Reading/Oxford issues above) on February 25th at the East Timetable meeting.

Pleased to hear that. The Reading-Oxford local service is a mess - irregular gaps between services, poor connections at Didcot, and none of this seems to fit in with other traffic to make it at least reliable.

Perhaps two Paddington stopping trains an hour to/from Didcot, and two to/from Oxford (bi-mode - running onto to the North Downs as Grahame has suggested recently) on a near even 15 minute clockface timetable, Oxford-bound to be timed at Didcot to provide a reasonable single change service from Swindon pending investment in the Didcot west curve?

[nickswift99]

If the timetable can't be fixed, GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) should look to update some of the double-back easements that already exist to include Didcot so that passengers travelling using XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) are actually able to get to/from Didcot without irregular waits at Oxford.

I believe the precedent already exists in easements 700137 and 700138 which were present when the was a reliable(ish) regular stopping service between Reading and Oxford.

[Sixty3Closure]

I think I'd amend No3 to be Twyford & Maidenhead. Generally the fast services for London are over crowded and unreliable. The evening trains also suffer this as well especially where trains have to be joined or separated.

A more general (vague?) issue is the London centric timetable and 'suprer fasts' makes going to Wales a bit more difficult or at least means travelling into London first rather than picking up trains at Reading.

[Incider]

Are the ‘fast’ trains worth it?  I was on the 17:00 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) tonight, it got in late, held up at Swindon, I suspect behind the Swansea, there had already been some slow running before Swindon and then from Bath to Temple Meads we must have been following a local service in. 

[nickswift99]

It’s not just about timing but also capacity.

The fast services provide space for the longer distance traveller (at the expense of the Reading commuter).  The fasts also mean that there’s more throughout available at Reading as you don’t lose several minutes in braking/acceleration and a platform dwell.

[grahame]

Really useful, thank you.  Please keep posting. 

For my immediate meeting, please note that we'll be looking at smaller issues (in operation terms) that are ripe for a quick fix - things like upping service frequencies are not going to happen from this route (though extending from Filton into Parkway and running a passenger carrying train in place of an empty train might).  No harm logging the bigger things - just don't be surprised to get "out of scope" as an answer!

[NickB]

No 3 - the commuter trains from Twyford and Maidenhead that have had atrocious rates of cancellations and delays in the morning peak. That’s the self-centred priority for me please.

The evening peak from Paddington to thames valley is also much thinner than it was, but I can deal with that.

[oxviem]

So whilst the comments re: New Trains are noted - i agree with the previous poster but that is perhaps one for the future.

I do agree that the Reading-Oxford does not work at present. There are gaps during the day of up to 50mins at Didcot and the connections are not always very good at Didcot adding time to what should be short journeys.

Some of this comes from bunching of services linked to the fact that pre-electrification they were through services so in effect you get the electric to didcot closely following or being followed by the service to Oxford to maintain the historic paths. If it was possible to space these out that would be better and reduce the long waits at Didcot for through journeys.

One nice example would be in the evening where you have an arrival from Oxford at 21.39 with a service all stations towards Reading leaving at 21.38 - retiming the latter by a few minutes would be great for journeys and remove a 40 minute wait.....

The reliability on the route could also be improved if it was possible to retime to reduce conflicts at the two Didcot junctions.

[Phantom]

A decently timed service from Temple Meads back down to Weston on a Saturday evening would be a god send
Just after 10pm is rubbish if you have any plans for being out in Bristol on a Saturday evening

[WSW Frome]

One small irritant noticed in the new timetable.

The 18.07 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-FRO^» (Frome - next trains) is now faster through the B&H^▸ (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury) but then waits 13 minutes at WSB^» (Westbury - next trains) to assume its previous path, arriving FRO 20.07. This is presumably to avoid conflict with the up SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) service which also calls at FRO (19.57) and is often late. Any chance of improving either service and maybe the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) service does not now need to be service train back to WSB (only) on its return, before continuing ecs to Bristol. This might then mean a swifter reversal at FRO if that helps.

[grahame]

One small irritant noticed in the new timetable.

The 18.07 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-FRO^» (Frome - next trains) is now faster through the B&H^▸ (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury) but then waits 13 minutes at WSB^» (Westbury - next trains) to assume its previous path, arriving FRO 20.07. This is presumably to avoid conflict with the up SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) service which also calls at FRO (19.57) and is often late. Any chance of improving either service and maybe the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) service does not now need to be service train back to WSB (only) on its return, before continuing ecs to Bristol. This might then mean a swifter reversal at FRO if that helps.

Exactly the sort of thing to ask!

Question.  Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Road to Bristol Parkway, lost connectivity - problem caused by "having to" turn Weston trains back at Filton Abbey Wood.  How does stopping outbound trains via Yate additionally at Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Road rate as a solution from a passenger viewpoint?

[martyjon]

One small irritant noticed in the new timetable.

The 18.07 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-FRO^» (Frome - next trains) is now faster through the B&H^▸ (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury) but then waits 13 minutes at WSB^» (Westbury - next trains) to assume its previous path, arriving FRO 20.07. This is presumably to avoid conflict with the up SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) service which also calls at FRO (19.57) and is often late. Any chance of improving either service and maybe the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) service does not now need to be service train back to WSB (only) on its return, before continuing ecs to Bristol. This might then mean a swifter reversal at FRO if that helps.

Exactly the sort of thing to ask!

Question.  Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Road to Bristol Parkway, lost connectivity - problem caused by "having to" turn Weston trains back at Filton Abbey Wood.  How does stopping outbound trains via Yate additionally at Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Road rate as a solution from a passenger viewpoint?

Question I would like answered is how are paths to be found for the long promised half hourly Bristol Gloucester service.