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Author Topic: Bristol Airport  (Read 8590 times)
Celestial
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« Reply #75 on: February 12, 2022, 10:19:49 am »

If National Rail signed up to a 100% renewable electricity tariff like London Underground did, the amount of fossil fuels used in making electricity throughout the land would be cut dramatically overnight. 
Never quite understood these renewable tariffs. At any point in time there's a certain amount of demand on the network, and similarly available supply. some of which will be green but some won't. How that's divvied up feels irrelevant. If coal is needed for the last 3% at a particular point in time , NR» (Network Rail - home page) (nor indeed anyone else) can't say, "make sure we don't get any of that nasty coal generated electricity to power our trains" - it's just one big pot.   
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ellendune
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« Reply #76 on: February 12, 2022, 12:57:36 pm »

If National Rail signed up to a 100% renewable electricity tariff like London Underground did, the amount of fossil fuels used in making electricity throughout the land would be cut dramatically overnight. 

No not really.  The only way it would drop overnight is if more renewable generation is brought on stream. 

Signing up to  renewable tariff means that your supplier has to find that amount of renewable electricity to buy.  That creates demand for renewable generation and drives new renewable generating capacity. 

The electrons moving in the wires don't know how they are sourced so yes it will be a mixture, and availability at a particular time will mean wind and solar will need to be balanced with other sources unless there is a large amount of battery storage. Tidal would make a real difference here as it is predictable and can be balanced out by having generation in different locations around the coast. 
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broadgage
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« Reply #77 on: February 12, 2022, 02:54:46 pm »

Yup

Those barstewards running 9 and 10 car trains to replace the longer HSTs (High Speed Train) (if you include some fresh air at each end...)

Powered by electricity for part of the way, produced by wind (if it's windy) or sun (if it's sunny), or carbon-free nuclear and gas most of the time. Still cleaner than filthy diesel. If National Rail signed up to a 100% renewable electricity tariff like London Underground did, the amount of fossil fuels used in making electricity throughout the land would be cut dramatically overnight.  If one is going to embrace the fight against climate change and exhort others to do so, one must accept with good grace whatever slight discomfort the fight may cause along the way.

The new trains are indeed at least a bit green, and undeniably better than flying is, bi-mode power is far preferable to 100% diesel.
I am not convinced however that new trains HAVE to be worse than old ones in terms of comfort and facilities, If the old trains had padded seats, then why cant the new ones ? If the old trains had buffets, then why is providing this facility so hard or unreasonably expensive on new ones ?
And as for train length, I appreciate that the new trains are INTENDED to be longer, but in practice 5 car operation is frequently reported, and has been since they were introduced.

Why should we "accept with good grace" that new trains are worse than old ones.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
broadgage
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« Reply #78 on: February 12, 2022, 03:03:57 pm »

If National Rail signed up to a 100% renewable electricity tariff like London Underground did, the amount of fossil fuels used in making electricity throughout the land would be cut dramatically overnight. 
Never quite understood these renewable tariffs. At any point in time there's a certain amount of demand on the network, and similarly available supply. some of which will be green but some won't. How that's divvied up feels irrelevant. If coal is needed for the last 3% at a particular point in time , NR» (Network Rail - home page) (nor indeed anyone else) can't say, "make sure we don't get any of that nasty coal generated electricity to power our trains" - it's just one big pot.   

Agree, any one customer signing up to a renewable tariff DOES NOT magically alter the mix of generation used to supply the national grid. It is simply an accounting exercise, that I, and others have compared to the Church practice of selling indulgences whereby sins can be for forgiven for a sum of money.

If the electricity actually comes exclusively from green sources, then why has it gone up so much ? Wind and sunlight have not increased in price as has natural gas.

The only way to make electricity greener is to build more wind turbines, and install more solar panels, and other renewables. NOT by trading or offsetting.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
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« Reply #79 on: February 12, 2022, 10:48:49 pm »

Never quite understood these renewable tariffs. At any point in time there's a certain amount of demand on the network, and similarly available supply. some of which will be green but some won't. How that's divvied up feels irrelevant. If coal is needed for the last 3% at a particular point in time , NR» (Network Rail - home page) (nor indeed anyone else) can't say, "make sure we don't get any of that nasty coal generated electricity to power our trains" - it's just one big pot.   

For pity's sake, don't tell everybody! The few power companies that are left rely on some people thinking their supply wired up to a wind turbine directly, and don't ask what happens when it isn't windy.


No not really.  The only way it would drop overnight is if more renewable generation is brought on stream. 

Signing up to  renewable tariff means that your supplier has to find that amount of renewable electricity to buy. 

That, or buy REGOs (Renewable Energy Guarantee of Origin) on the open market across Europe and even beyond. It costs under £2 to buy enough to greenwash the supply to the average British home for a year. Broadgage refers to these as "indulgences", and I think he has hit that nail squarely on the head.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2022, 10:55:05 pm by TonyK » Logged

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broadgage
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« Reply #80 on: February 14, 2022, 05:45:00 pm »

The again delayed reopening of Tavistock railway station and the line thereto was reported on local TV news yesterday, 13/02/2022.  The latest delay was contrasted to the expansion of Bristol airport.

It was suggested that airport expansion could be "pushed through" but that railway re-opening was "delayed as long as possible" Certainly seems an interesting view of actual transport priorities.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
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« Reply #81 on: February 14, 2022, 06:27:07 pm »

The again delayed reopening of Tavistock railway station and the line thereto was reported on local TV news yesterday, 13/02/2022.  The latest delay was contrasted to the expansion of Bristol airport.

It was suggested that airport expansion could be "pushed through" but that railway re-opening was "delayed as long as possible" Certainly seems an interesting view of actual transport priorities.

Portishead was also compared to the airport expansion yesterday, although not by our friend RS, who is above this bad-mouthing of the opposition as a way of scoring cheap points. Everything that takes a long time will henceforth be compared to the breakneck speed with which the expansion of Bristol Airport was pushed through the planning system.

As it happens, the airport's application was not "pushed through" at breakneck speed, but in fact took longer than it should have done because of what has now been shown as north somerset DC (Direct Current)'s failed attempt to subvert the planning rules. The airport also had finance sorted prior to submitting the application, something which remains elusive in the Tavistock case. I am sure it is not responsible for the glacial pace of projects that rely on what little public money is left. I am also sure that their planning team would be delighted to share some of their expertise with neighbouring local authorities, if asked.

For the record, I share the frustration of waiting for things to happen on small rail projects.
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eXPassenger
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« Reply #82 on: February 15, 2022, 05:08:24 pm »

The again delayed reopening of Tavistock railway station and the line thereto was reported on local TV news yesterday, 13/02/2022.  The latest delay was contrasted to the expansion of Bristol airport.

It was suggested that airport expansion could be "pushed through" but that railway re-opening was "delayed as long as possible" Certainly seems an interesting view of actual transport priorities.

The big difference is that Bristol Airport is being pushed by a private company with finance available and all of the detailed planning BCRs (Benefit Cost Ratio) etc were done behind closed doors.

With railways the funding comes from HMG and all the planning is done in public with far more opportunities for query and delay.  I suspect that in full GWR (Great Western Railway) days Portishead would have been far faster.
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TonyK
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« Reply #83 on: February 15, 2022, 05:16:32 pm »

The big difference is that Bristol Airport is being pushed by a private company with finance available and all of the detailed planning BCRs (Benefit Cost Ratio) etc were done behind closed doors.

With railways the funding comes from HMG and all the planning is done in public with far more opportunities for query and delay.  I suspect that in full GWR (Great Western Railway) days Portishead would have been far faster.

I suppose a private project doesn't need to fiddle the BCRs like projects such as MetroBust had to do to get the money. If it flops, it flops, and in this case a lot of Canadian pensioners will not get quite the rise they were expecting next year. On the other hand, I am sure I am not alone in paying the closest possible attention when I am spending my own money rather than that belonging to a constituency that could vote me out of power next year. Any pension fund, home or abroad, would be just as careful.
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eXPassenger
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« Reply #84 on: February 15, 2022, 05:27:25 pm »

The big difference is that Bristol Airport is being pushed by a private company with finance available and all of the detailed planning BCRs (Benefit Cost Ratio) etc were done behind closed doors.

With railways the funding comes from HMG and all the planning is done in public with far more opportunities for query and delay.  I suspect that in full GWR (Great Western Railway) days Portishead would have been far faster.

I suppose a private project doesn't need to fiddle the BCRs like projects such as MetroBust had to do to get the money. If it flops, it flops, and in this case a lot of Canadian pensioners will not get quite the rise they were expecting next year. On the other hand, I am sure I am not alone in paying the closest possible attention when I am spending my own money rather than that belonging to a constituency that could vote me out of power next year. Any pension fund, home or abroad, would be just as careful.

I agree that they will be as careful, but they will not publicise the BCR and will not show their plans until it has passed internal tests such as the BCR.
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TonyK
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« Reply #85 on: February 15, 2022, 05:37:36 pm »


I agree that they will be as careful, but they will not publicise the BCR (Benefit Cost Ratio) and will not show their plans until it has passed internal tests such as the BCR.

And if those BCR figures don't add up to a sound investment, they wouldn't go ahead with the scheme.
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eXPassenger
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« Reply #86 on: February 16, 2022, 09:09:56 am »


I agree that they will be as careful, but they will not publicise the BCR (Benefit Cost Ratio) and will not show their plans until it has passed internal tests such as the BCR.

And if those BCR figures don't add up to a sound investment, they wouldn't go ahead with the scheme.

and we will never know that it was proposed.
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TonyK
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« Reply #87 on: February 16, 2022, 11:49:02 am »


and we will never know that it was proposed.

Exactly.
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TonyK
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« Reply #88 on: June 08, 2022, 07:07:19 pm »

I have been on holiday, and am still catching up. The long awaited application for Judicial Review is in. Details appear on the solicitor Leigh Day's website.
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