Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 19:35 28 Mar 2024
* Easter getaways hit by travel disruption
- How do I renew my UK passport and what is the 10-year rule?
- Passengers pleaded with knifeman during attack
- Family anger at sentence on fatal crash driver, 19
- Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
28th Mar (1988)
Formal end to carrying coffins by BR (link)

Train RunningCancelled
17:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
17:57 London Paddington to Worcester Foregate Street
18:03 London Paddington to Penzance
18:08 London Paddington to Frome
18:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
19:23 Reading to Gatwick Airport
19:24 Newbury to Bedwyn
19:33 London Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill
19:35 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
19:55 Bedwyn to Newbury
20:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
20:13 Swindon to Westbury
20:16 Frome to Westbury
20:49 Newbury to Bedwyn
20:56 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington
21:16 Bedwyn to Newbury
21:53 Newbury to Bedwyn
22:25 Bedwyn to Newbury
22:47 Newbury to Bedwyn
Short Run
15:03 London Paddington to Penzance
16:19 Carmarthen to London Paddington
16:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
16:35 London Paddington to Plymouth
16:50 Plymouth to London Paddington
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance
17:30 London Paddington to Taunton
17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
17:50 Gloucester to Salisbury
17:59 Gatwick Airport to Reading
18:19 Reading to Gatwick Airport
18:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading
18:54 Reading to Gatwick Airport
18:59 Gatwick Airport to Reading
19:04 Paignton to London Paddington
19:06 London Paddington to Bedwyn
19:13 Salisbury to Bristol Temple Meads
19:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading
20:42 Bedwyn to London Paddington
21:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
Delayed
13:59 Cardiff Central to Penzance
14:15 Penzance to London Paddington
16:03 London Paddington to Penzance
16:15 Penzance to London Paddington
Additional 17:17 Exeter St Davids to Penzance
Additional 17:26 Castle Cary to Penzance
19:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
19:59 Gatwick Airport to Reading
23:04 Reading to Bedwyn
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 28, 2024, 19:39:40 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[133] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[132] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[53] Return of the BRUTE?
[44] If not HS2 to Manchester, how will traffic be carried?
[41] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[32] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
Author Topic: Heathrow expansion  (Read 3962 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2020, 09:27:37 »

I think it is necessary that there are checks and balances with the government system. If the courts question something parliament can legislate to make adjustments they see fit.

News this morning https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51665682 might cause the government to reconsider its decision not to appeal the Heathrow case. Can railways schemes also fall foul of this?

The general understanding, I believe, is that rail is much 'cleaner' per person moved that road or air. However, there are some campaigners who take the view that new rail schemes too should be discouraged. The requirement of the courts is that the impact is looked at and taken into account, which it seems has not demonstrably happened on the 3rd runway.  Could mean another round of paperwork for Portishead!

I do question one thing in the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) article ...

Quote
Aviation is a notoriously polluting sector, but the debate about cars is less clear-cut.

The government hopes technical innovation in the shape of electric and hydrogen cars will allow current or even increased levels of mobility to be carbon-free by 2050.

Its critics doubt the clean car revolution will happen fast enough to prevent emissions breaching climate laws.

They also warn about the environmental impact of the mining and manufacturing needed to make battery cars, and of the unavoidable particulate pollution generated by tyres and brakes.

Silly question - regenerative braking - does that not remove the majority of particulates that would come from friction brakes, which I accept my be needed for the come-to-rest phase.  Friction brakes to stop a vehicle moving once it is at rest would be a holding exercise, and particulate-free, right?
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2020, 16:16:49 »

Yes, regenerative braking does significantly reduce the particulates emitted from tyre and brake pad wear.
This also increases the life of tyres and brake pads, not only saving money on replacements but also reducing the pollution from manufacturing replacements.
Regenerative braking also reduces electricity consumption, and therefore reduces the pollution from power stations.
Electricity from the UK (United Kingdom) grid is far less polluting than petrol, but does still produce some carbon dioxide and other pollutants, reducing consumption is therefore desirable.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6435


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2021, 19:57:57 »

Heathrow's 3rd runway has lost support of late, and may be postponed for another decade or so. That seems to be the practical effect of the current thinking, as outlined in New Civil Engineer.

Quote
[size=14pt[/size]Gatwick expansion backed over Heathrow third runway
12 FEB, 2021 BY ROB HORGAN

The London Plan – drawn up by Sadiq Khan and approved by Communities secretary Robert Jenrick – includes no provision for Heathrow Airport Ltd’s plans for a third runway.

In fact, the plan mention’s the mayor’s “strong objection” to Heathrow expansion plans on a number of occasions.

This is despite advice from the Planning Inspectorate that the London Plan “should be modified to include the new northwest runway scheme at Heathrow.”

Instead, the London Plan supports expansions at Gatwick as well as at Stansted, London City, Luton and Southend airports.
(Continues at source)

Time to start all over again, unless the Government puts its foot down. This could help Bristol in its airport expansion plan, and the people of the villages scheduled for conversion to airfield might be able to breathe slightly more easily (in the metaphorical sense) for a few years until this rears its head again - if the plan is given the nod by the government. The Gatwick plan will upset fewer people than the Heathrow one did, and lawyers are cheaper round those parts.
Logged

Now, please!
Surrey 455
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1229


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2021, 20:39:49 »

Heathrow's 3rd runway has lost support of late, and may be postponed for another decade or so. That seems to be the practical effect of the current thinking, as outlined in New Civil Engineer.

Quote
Gatwick expansion backed over Heathrow third runway
12 FEB, 2021 BY ROB HORGAN

The London Plan – drawn up by Sadiq Khan and approved by Communities secretary Robert Jenrick – includes no provision for Heathrow Airport Ltd’s plans for a third runway.

In fact, the plan mention’s the mayor’s “strong objection” to Heathrow expansion plans on a number of occasions.

This is despite advice from the Planning Inspectorate that the London Plan “should be modified to include the new northwest runway scheme at Heathrow.”

Instead, the London Plan supports expansions at Gatwick as well as at Stansted, London City, Luton and Southend airports.
(Continues at source)

Time to start all over again, unless the Government puts its foot down. This could help Bristol in its airport expansion plan, and the people of the villages scheduled for conversion to airfield might be able to breathe slightly more easily (in the metaphorical sense) for a few years until this rears its head again - if the plan is given the nod by the government. The Gatwick plan will upset fewer people than the Heathrow one did, and lawyers are cheaper round those parts.

Perhaps the plan is to use HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) to get to a new larger hub at Birmingham International.

HS2 suggests a journey time of 38 minutes from London (Source - HS2) compared with a journey time of 49 mins (average)  London to Gatwick. (Source - Trainline)

Boris could potentially support this because it's not Heathrow, and being Central England it's closer to his new voters in the North.
Logged
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6435


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2021, 08:58:28 »


Perhaps the plan is to use HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) to get to a new larger hub at Birmingham International.

HS2 suggests a journey time of 38 minutes from London (Source - HS2) compared with a journey time of 49 mins (average)  London to Gatwick. (Source - Trainline)

Boris could potentially support this because it's not Heathrow, and being Central England it's closer to his new voters in the North.

If it isn't, it will be when Boris has read this!

He may choose to keep it slightly more local though. One of the previous iterations of the expansion plan had greater use of Gatwick's second runway. 08L/26R is shorter than its neighbour as the aerodrome chart shows., but at 2564 metres is long enough for practically anything to land, and all but the biggest long haul to take off. Bristol Airport for comparison is 2011 metres in length. The two runways are a lot closer together than Heathrow's pair, but with allowance for wake turbulence, both could be used simultaneously to great effect, with landings on  one and take-offs from the other. The money that was to have been spent on moving the M4 and M25 slightly to the right could instead be used to upgrade the railway to Gatwick, to give it a true express service.

London City has the capacity for more flights than it was operating when Covid started. Operators could be tempted to use that for additional internal flights if a market reappears in due course. Stansted, like Bristol, had begun a process to get permission to expand, which will look a lot more attractive to government with Heathrow frozen in time. One of the arguments used against those plans was that with Heathrow having a third runway, there will be no need for expansion at the regional airports.

What does this promise for the future? A busier Gatwick, first and foremost, which won't please everyone but won't upset as many people as a third runway at LHR would, and could mean fringe benefits in terms of improvements to the railway to the airport and south coast. Bristol Airport can go to the Planning Inquiry with renewed optimism, knowing that even if the planning inspector supports the irrational decision of north somerset parish council, the Secretary of State will be likely to allow the expansion unless the Green Party is in power by then. Stansted will also get the nod, and Birmingham might get bigger too. The Prime Minister will go to the hustings in 2025 and tell his constituents that he fought long and hard to stop the third runway, and has saved them all from it. Even if it happened in spite of, rather than because of, him, they will still carry him shoulder high back to Downing Street, hailing him as the greenest Prime Minister who ever graced Parliament. Britain will settle into a new golden age of aviation, with more and more new exciting destinations becoming available from enlarged regional airports.

Then, a couple of years later, plans will be published for a third runway at Heathrow, needed because of the massive increase in air traffic resulting from the rejection of the previous plans...



Logged

Now, please!
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page