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Author Topic: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion  (Read 384518 times)
chuffed
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« Reply #645 on: April 08, 2019, 13:44:41 »

My evergrowing collection of great crested newts will not take too kindly to having Bristol Port Company tattooed on their backs. It took hours of work to get 'property of Co-op' scrubbed off when the Sainsbury's supermarket application went in.
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Lee
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« Reply #646 on: April 08, 2019, 13:56:14 »

What stages now remain before one of our great and good take their photo opportunity of digging the first turf to commemorate the commencement of it's construction?

Well, according to Eight Steps to Filton, it looks like we've cracked "GRIP (Guide to Railway Investment Projects) 4 - You finally agree a scheme" and we've already had a bit of "GRIP 5 - You dither over design", so we are probably somewhere between there and "GRIP 6 - Test construction and commission - At this rate we'll open in 2023."
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« Reply #647 on: April 08, 2019, 14:15:57 »

Good news indeed but what with planning permission being granted for Portway station just a few days ago, by railway standards, aren't things currently moving forward round here with reckless haste?


Could do with some haste to get the Long Ashton Park and Ride to open on Sundays and later in the evening.
Still mind blowing it isn't open for events at Ashton Gate

Wasn't it a condition of planning permission that it couldn't be used on Sundays?
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martyjon
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« Reply #648 on: April 08, 2019, 14:46:32 »

Good news indeed but what with planning permission being granted for Portway station just a few days ago, by railway standards, aren't things currently moving forward round here with reckless haste?


Could do with some haste to get the Long Ashton Park and Ride to open on Sundays and later in the evening.
Still mind blowing it isn't open for events at Ashton Gate

Wasn't it a condition of planning permission that it couldn't be used on Sundays?


Yes, but that was over 40 years ago when shops in general didn't open on Sundays in town centres, League Football wasn't played on Sundays and what is there to stop BCC» (Bristol City Council - about) applying to North Somerset Parish Council for planning permission to increase the opening hours of the LA P & R by relaxation of the conditions attached to the original planning permission conditions. I'll tell you the reasons, INCOMPETENCE on the part of BCC and INTRANSIGENCE on the part of NSPC.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #649 on: April 08, 2019, 16:26:32 »

Here's the announcement on the North Somerset Council website (nothing new here, but it's just good to read it again):

Quote
Funding secured for Portishead Rail
08 Apr 2019, 12:12 pm

A nationally-significant scheme to improve transport in the region has received over £31m funding from the Department for Transport (DfT» (Department for Transport - about)).

The funding announcement for MetroWest Phase 1, which includes the reopening of the Portishead to Bristol rail line, was made by Chris Grayling, the Secretary of State for Transport at a visit to Portishead.

The funding announcement comes ahead of the submission of a Development Consent Order (DCO (Driver Controlled Operation)) to the Government in July.

All nationally-significant infrastructure projects require a DCO before they can progress.

MetroWest Phase 1 is being led by North Somerset Council and the West of England Combined Authority on behalf of South Gloucestershire, Bristol City and Bath and North East Somerset councils.

As well as reopening the Portishead Rail branch line, with two new stations at Portishead and at Pill, this MetroWest scheme also includes vital improvements to passenger services along the Severn Beach and Bristol to Bath Lines.

Colin Medus, Head of Transport and Infrastructure at North Somerset Council said: “The Portishead Rail scheme is a nationally-significant project that will open-up the rail network to thousands of people across the region and will help relieve congestion during the rush hour periods.

“We are committed to investing in the infrastructure of our area and this Government funding is the news we have been waiting for. MetroWest Phase 1 is firmly on track for delivering rail services fit for the future of our region.”

Source: North Somerset Council
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broadgage
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« Reply #650 on: April 08, 2019, 18:53:34 »

With "£31 million in funding secured" how long until the cost escalates to £310 million.

Then a few more reviews, studies, and consultations. And as already said, newts, bats, badgers and something else rare and not yet found in the area.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
martyjon
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« Reply #651 on: April 08, 2019, 19:14:32 »

With "£31 million in funding secured" how long until the cost escalates to £310 million.

Then a few more reviews, studies, and consultations. And as already said, newts, bats, badgers and something else rare and not yet found in the area.


I don't think the cost will escalate to that extent but you can be assured that the authorities will be constantly praising the project as being on time and on budget until err 6 months before opening before a delay in opening is announced and then after a further period of time a further delay is announced PLUS an escalation on costs.
Metrobus went £30 million over budget so I predict this project could go over budget by £15 - £20 million and what councils council taxpayers is going to stump up the shortfall, North Somersets or Bristols or WECAs» (West of England Combined Authority - about) even though NSPC are not a participant, by choice, in WECA but willingly hold their hands out for contributions from said authority.
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #652 on: April 09, 2019, 10:44:27 »

With "£31 million in funding secured" how long until the cost escalates to £310 million.

Then a few more reviews, studies, and consultations. And as already said, newts, bats, badgers and something else rare and not yet found in the area.


I don't think the cost will escalate to that extent but you can be assured that the authorities will be constantly praising the project as being on time and on budget until err 6 months before opening before a delay in opening is announced and then after a further period of time a further delay is announced PLUS an escalation on costs.
Metrobus went £30 million over budget so I predict this project could go over budget by £15 - £20 million and what councils council taxpayers is going to stump up the shortfall, North Somersets or Bristols or WECAs» (West of England Combined Authority - about) even though NSPC are not a participant, by choice, in WECA but willingly hold their hands out for contributions from said authority.

Projects of any kind can go over budget, but the reasons are often remarkably similar. Some of the usual ones are:

* Paying out for additional compensation for local residents once the complaints come in
* Paying out for additional work once the complaints come in that wasn't allowed for in the original budget
* Changing specifications part way through the project - DfT» (Department for Transport - about) are especially good at this - you only need to look at additional bi-modal 800s in place of straight electrics to see where the money goes.
* Additional work found to be necessary as the project progresses eg. dealing with unstable land conditions that weren't uncovered during the original survey
* Poor weather causing delays eg. its a bad idea to lay concrete during a prolonged frosty period

I must admit I haven't kept abreast of recent developments so the answer to this may be already on this thread somewhere, but I understood that one of the issues was that a 50mph railway had originally been promised. Then it was realised, after they sent in someone who knew about such things, that it would be hard to exceed 30mph given the curvature on the line, and that to get any higher speeds would require slewing curves and potentially knocking bits out of the Avon Gorge to do it.

is there an update on this or must I stop being bone idle and read back through the whole thread?  Grin
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #653 on: April 09, 2019, 12:55:12 »

is there an update on this or must I stop being bone idle and read back through the whole thread?  Grin

Well... the original scheme was 2tph; it's now 1tph. It's so stripped-back that it is hard to see how they could possible go much more that 15% over budget, which is not to say it would be impossible... It does seem pretty inevitable that 1tph will quickly prove inadequate though, and then what?
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« Reply #654 on: April 09, 2019, 13:07:21 »

Well... the original scheme was 2tph; it's now 1tph. It's so stripped-back that it is hard to see how they could possible go much more that 15% over budget, which is not to say it would be impossible... It does seem pretty inevitable that 1tph will quickly prove inadequate though, and then what?

There will be years of overcrowding before it becomes so bad the line is upgraded again to what we were originally hoping for, though costing more that had it been done properly originally, and no doubt leading to a line closure for several months whilst the work in undertaken.   Undecided
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« Reply #655 on: April 09, 2019, 13:11:23 »

There was a suggestion somewhere of a slightly higher frequency that could be achieved in the morning rush hour by having 2 train sets starting from the Portishead end. To me, the only way of doing that is a double platform in Portishead Station or perhaps having one waiting on the Portbury Dock branch until the first of the two passes towards Bristol.
I cannot remember what the platform provision plans are for Portishead and am absolutely without clue if my second speculation is even remotely possible.
The only other capacity increasing measure I can think of, other than the changes to the line itself, is longer platforms for longer trains.
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Clan Line
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« Reply #656 on: April 09, 2019, 14:53:19 »

and something else rare and not yet found in the area.

..............trains ?
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« Reply #657 on: April 09, 2019, 15:05:33 »

There was a suggestion somewhere of a slightly higher frequency that could be achieved in the morning rush hour by having 2 train sets starting from the Portishead end. To me, the only way of doing that is a double platform in Portishead Station or perhaps having one waiting on the Portbury Dock branch until the first of the two passes towards Bristol.
I cannot remember what the platform provision plans are for Portishead and am absolutely without clue if my second speculation is even remotely possible.
The only other capacity increasing measure I can think of, other than the changes to the line itself, is longer platforms for longer trains.

I'm sure the station plans must be burried somewhere in here... https://www.portisheadrailwaygroup.org/current.html
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johnneyw
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« Reply #658 on: April 09, 2019, 15:47:05 »

There was a suggestion somewhere of a slightly higher frequency that could be achieved in the morning rush hour by having 2 train sets starting from the Portishead end. To me, the only way of doing that is a double platform in Portishead Station or perhaps having one waiting on the Portbury Dock branch until the first of the two passes towards Bristol.
I cannot remember what the platform provision plans are for Portishead and am absolutely without clue if my second speculation is even remotely possible.
The only other capacity increasing measure I can think of, other than the changes to the line itself, is longer platforms for longer trains.

I'm sure the station plans must be burried somewhere in here... https://www.portisheadrailwaygroup.org/current.html

Thanks S&T (Signalling and Telegraph).

The link did indeed help.

Both the text and a computer graphic show that Portishead is due to be single platform only. Pill, however, is double tracked according to what I saw. Now that might be where a 2nd train can lurk to provide extra rush hour services above the hourly usual one?
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« Reply #659 on: April 09, 2019, 17:42:08 »

The current plan is indeed a single platform at Portishead.  During the consultation I did suggest a second for resiliance but I'm sure it was ignored on cost grounds.  No reason a platform couldn't be long enough for a 6 car ECS (Empty Coaching Stock) to arrive and split into the first and second departure of 3 cars each. (Assuming it will be turbos running the line - they could of course get the pacers out of retirement!)

My understanding from the latest presentation is the twin track at pill, one line will be for freight and the other for passenger.  The points won't be restored where the Portishead splits from Portbury Docks, it will be two separate lines until after the Pill platform where they merge into 1.  I guess if there's no freight due a passenger unit can fester on the freight section, but Pill was not designed nor would be any use as a passenger passing facility.

Cheers
Alan
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