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Author Topic: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion  (Read 384742 times)
stuving
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« Reply #300 on: May 15, 2013, 10:17:02 »

I really think that the Portishead level crossing can be made as safe as anyone could expect...

That is the point, really: how safe and who counts as anyone.  And it's not just the ORR» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about). It is true their guidance on new level crossings says:
"Except in exceptional circumstances, ORR does not support the creation of any new level crossings, of any type."
Presumably in this case their decision was not as given in the news item, but that this case does not qualify as  exceptional.

We also have the Liverpool verdicts [http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=9790.0] as a precedent that railway operators and their staff are responsible for protecting the public from their own irresponsible behaviour. Trains and railways can be dangerous things, even at low speeds.

My local crossing is also at the end of a platform, and the line has a 30 mph limit but stopping trains go slower than that. Even so, a few years back a young lad saw some friends on the opposite platform getting on or off a train, and wanted to join them in a hurry. He vaulted the barrier and was struck by a train coming in to stop at the near platform and was killed. In this kind of conflict between physics and physiology, physics usually does win. I wonder how slowly a train has to be going to avoid that outcome.

You could say that exceeds the limits of a reasonably duty of care. You could also point to the very different attitude we take to the danger of cars (quite heavy enough to kill) passing within a few feet of pedestrians. However, on balance I would support the ORR policy, though I might be persuaded about the specific interpretation of "exceptional" in this case if a low enough speed is operationally practical. 
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #301 on: May 15, 2013, 12:27:29 »

You could say that exceeds the limits of a reasonably duty of care. You could also point to the very different attitude we take to the danger of cars (quite heavy enough to kill) passing within a few feet of pedestrians. However, on balance I would support the ORR» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) policy, though I might be persuaded about the specific interpretation of "exceptional" in this case if a low enough speed is operationally practical. 

It's as though trains somehow killed people deader than cars or buses, isn't it? The sad tale of the lad at your local station could just as easily have happened at a bus stop, yet no-one is suggesting that we should erect fences between the carriageway and the pavement along every road in the land. But this is essentially what the railway is expected to do.

High-speed crossings are another matter altogether; these are more akin to crossing a motorway and rightly we don't allow pedestrians to do this. Crossing a railway on foot on a single-track line where the trains are doing less than 30mph is no more dangerous than crossing a road in a town, whatever the ORR or Lord Crow of Shadwell say.
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jdw.wor
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« Reply #302 on: May 15, 2013, 12:40:53 »

I cannot believe common sense will not prevail here. To provide a station other than "in town" will possibly be self defeating and make the investment less justified.
Operationally this can surely be handled by approach control signalling where the signal controlling the crossing and entry to the station is normally set at red and only changes to yellow, or is it green (its thirty years since I was a BR (British Rail(ways)) "operator") after the train has come to a stand. A 5mph speed limit, if required, could be applied for entry to platform.

Having "run" an area many years ago I am amazed by what we find dangerous today. Can anyone see more danger in the proposed level crossing than on any open platform, anywhere in the country, where trains pass at anything up to 125mph!
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TonyK
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« Reply #303 on: May 15, 2013, 13:11:53 »

I cannot believe common sense will not prevail here.

This IS North Somerset, you know...
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #304 on: May 15, 2013, 20:03:17 »

It's as though trains somehow killed people deader than cars or buses, isn't it? The sad tale of the lad at your local station could just as easily have happened at a bus stop, yet no-one is suggesting that we should erect fences between the carriageway and the pavement along every road in the land. But this is essentially what the railway is expected to do.

Thanks for making that point, Red Squirrel.

Purely to illustrate that point, may I offer the following sad story, about a person killed by a bus at a terminus a few days ago, from the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Quote
Talbot Green bus terminus death of pedestrian, 69


The pedestrian received fatal injuries at the bus terminus in Talbot Green

A 69-year-old man has died after he was involved in a collision with a bus leaving a terminus.

South Wales Police said the pedestrian was fatally injured in the collision at the exit of the terminus in Talbot Green.

It happened at about 14:15 BST as the bus was entering Talbot Road on Saturday.

Officers are appealing for any witnesses to the collision, or anyone who saw the man's movements beforehand.

Sadly, any amount of railings will not prevent the possibility of an accident - whether at a bus terminus, or a railway terminus.  Lips sealed
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
anthony215
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« Reply #305 on: May 15, 2013, 20:10:21 »

I know the bus station pretty well at Talbot Green and some things I have seen there really have left me shaking my head at some people's stupidity.

People will just walk through the centre of the bus station where buses are manouvering rather than walk around on the various pavements.

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JayMac
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« Reply #306 on: May 16, 2013, 23:20:57 »

I don't regard myself as particularly stupid (pipe down at the back...) but I came close to laminating the front of a bus recently, due to being unfamiliar with my surroundings.

Folkestone Bus Station, and the quickest way to the information office/booth was across the bus station forecourt following what I thought was the proscribed walking route.

Seeing a double decker looming larger from over my left shoulder certainly concentrated my mind. As did the horn and the industrial language shouted by the driver.

I'd made a simple error by thinking I was on a safe walking route. It could have be an fatal error. Well, if not fatal, then I would have made an interesting looking front end ornament on the Dennis Trident that was bearing down on me.
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« Reply #307 on: May 17, 2013, 07:44:43 »

the quickest way to the information office/booth was across the bus station forecourt following what I thought was the proscribed walking route.

I hope you won't mind me pointing out that a proscribed walk is forbidden because it is dangerous: a prescribed walk is the correct way.  It is of course an unintended typo, but I did smile.  Glad you weren't hurt.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #308 on: June 06, 2013, 12:24:24 »

Not sure if this is the right way to do this cos I'm quoting from the Bristol Metro thread (apologies if this breaches forum standards!), but:


...That esteemed organ, the Bristol Post which is printed in Didcot, is reporting that the re-opening of the Portishead line is to be put back a year to December 2018. Although it is at GRIP (Guide to Railway Investment Projects) 4 , it has to wait for the rest of the proposed metro lines to go through the GRIP process. The actual work would only seem to take about 9 months to complete, but it is all the vast bloated bureaucracy of planning, consultancy and over-engineering that ramps up the cost... an estimated eye watering  ^55 million... which just seems to beggar belief for just 3 miles of flat line! What would Brunel think ? I suspect he would be spinning in his grave so fast that he could probably power the entire electrification programme single handed ...or should that be single bodied ? Huh


Thing is, it does seem to make sense to make sure the Portishead line hangs off the rest of the local infrastructure properly. So perhaps a little delay is worth it if it means we get a better result.
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TonyK
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« Reply #309 on: June 06, 2013, 15:59:59 »

I agree that doing it right is more important than doing it quick. Too many mistakes have been made in the greater Bristol area in the past, and the last thing we need is another low quality stab at transport improvements. What is needed is absolutely clear - the ability to get passenger trains from Temple Meads via Parson Street to a new station behind Waitrose in Portishead and back again, to a reasonable timetable, whilst not impacting on goods traffic from Portbury. Over-engineering isn't usually a problem these days, although making provision for future expansion - like tram-train - is a good idea.

I agree also that the actual building work is going to be relatively quick. Although not built to passenger standards, the whole line to Portbury, including the new embankment and chord, was achieved in under a year. Existing track replacement plant can do 650 metres in 8 hours, so if the existing rail is strong enough to allow new track and the laying machine to be delivered, the whole stretch to Portbury junction is theoretically capable of being done in under a week. I know that won't be the case, as the whole lot will need to be scrutinised with an intensive scrute, and drainage, stability, and all manner of things sorted. But it is an existing railway alignment, even if unused for 32 years.

Network Rail are beginning to show pride in getting projects done on time and within budget. In the scheme of things, this isn't a big project, and there shouldn't be any unpleasant shocks when building begins. Had two men with shovels been sent to start work when this was first mooted, it would have been finished years ago.
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chuffed
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« Reply #310 on: June 06, 2013, 17:19:53 »

Excellent comment and insightful observations as always FTN. Pity the powers that be,  can't have someone with your healthy dose of common sense/ slightly cynical approach on board. You speak far more sense than most. on a whole range of topics.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #311 on: February 26, 2014, 11:14:15 »

From the Bristol Post:

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Commuters face delays from Portishead to Bristol for second day

Commuters from Portishead faced heavy congestion for the second day in a row this morning.

Fallen power cables caused chaos yesterday after a car collided with a lamp post near the cricket club. Work on the power lines was not completed until 7.50am.

This morning Clapton Lane was closed to traffic causing heavy delays.
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
anthony215
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« Reply #312 on: February 26, 2014, 19:26:47 »

More reasons why the the railink is required
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TonyK
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« Reply #313 on: February 26, 2014, 20:17:36 »

More reasons why the the railink is required

As if any were needed. The case is more than made.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #314 on: February 26, 2014, 20:42:43 »

I know: I merely saw the opportunity to give this topic yet another 'bump'.  Roll Eyes

If there was the will, I'm sure even North Somerset Council could get things moving - but then again, this isn't one of their personal vanity projects, such as a helicopter museum or North Somerset Life.  Lips sealed
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
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