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Author Topic: Portishead Line reopening for passengers - ongoing discussion  (Read 384678 times)
chuffed
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« Reply #330 on: June 30, 2014, 08:13:09 »

Trainer and I agree to disagree on this. I cannot understand why NR» (Network Rail - home page) has to take a sledgehammer to crack a nut over the question of a level crossing at Quays Avenue. Anyone with half a brain can see it is the most obvious and cost effective solution. I just think NR should be told, cajoled, emailed and petitioned  time and time and time again , until they get sick of all the aggro, and just go ahead and  build the damn thing. The three existing options on the table for the station are second, third and fourth best respectively.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #331 on: June 30, 2014, 09:04:31 »

Anyone with half a brain can see it is the most obvious and cost effective solution. I just think NR» (Network Rail - home page) should be told, cajoled, emailed and petitioned  time and time and time again , until they get sick of all the aggro, and just go ahead and  build the damn thing. The three existing options on the table for the station are second, third and fourth best respectively.

It's a political thing. From every viewpoint except politics (and I include 'safety' when I say 'everything') it would be sensible to put in a level crossing... but just imagine the furore if someone then got hit by a train? The ramifications for the people who decided to build it would be severe. If, on the other hand, someone was killed crossing the road to get to the station - well that would be a whole different thing; the death of a person crossing a road is a hundred times less newsworthy than a level crossing death.
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« Reply #332 on: June 30, 2014, 10:28:34 »

It is highly likely that if someone got hit by a train on aforesaid level crossing, it would be their own fault..as they would be trying to take a short cut, or jump the barriers/lights. As BNM has said 'level crossings are safe unless used in a unsafe manner
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« Reply #333 on: June 30, 2014, 10:33:33 »

Anyone with half a brain can see it is the most obvious and cost effective solution.
Whilst the capital cost of a level crossing may be favourable compared to a bridge, don't forget to use the other brain half to look at the other costs such as:

* On-going maintenance of the crossing
* Staff to monitor/operate crossing. Even where this can be done within an existing signal box, can the signallers deal with this amongst existing workloads, or are they even the correct level to do this (there are differing 'scales' of signalling responsibility/pressure).
* Cost to local economy through road traffic and pedestrian delays
* Cost to local environment though road traffic noise and pollution
* Death or injury through either misuse, error or failure
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #334 on: June 30, 2014, 10:42:17 »

As BNM has said 'level crossings are safe unless used in a unsafe manner

Erm ... that was CfN, not BNM.  Wink


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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
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« Reply #335 on: June 30, 2014, 10:53:26 »

I still can't help contrasting the different levels of protection being necessary in Edinburgh on the new (light = tram) rail service opened up Princes Street in the heart of the city a few weeks ago, and in Portishead.  Is the answer in Portishead to use vehicles similar to those in use in Edinburgh  Grin
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« Reply #336 on: June 30, 2014, 11:15:46 »

Is the answer in Portishead to use vehicles similar to those in use in Edinburgh  Grin

That (ie tram/train) would be an ideal solution, but alas not on offer in the foreseeable future.
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TonyK
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« Reply #337 on: June 30, 2014, 18:01:10 »

As BNM has said 'level crossings are safe unless used in a unsafe manner

Erm ... that was CfN, not BNM.  Wink


BNM also said it, but later.

Is the answer in Portishead to use vehicles similar to those in use in Edinburgh  Grin

That (ie tram/train) would be an ideal solution, but alas not on offer in the foreseeable future.

Tram-train would open up the possibility of a town centre loop, or even a route to Clevedon. It will not be quick in coming, but the trick is to make provision for it now. We're in this mess of having a station out of the centre largely because that wasn't done when Quays Avenue etc was built.

Anyone thought of lowering the road, and having the railway cross by bridge? St Lukes Road in Bedminster is my inspiration.
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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #338 on: June 30, 2014, 18:12:55 »


Anyone thought of lowering the road, and having the railway cross by bridge? St Lukes Road in Bedminster is my inspiration.

I'm sure we've all found St Luke's Rd a source of inspiration at some time in our lives...

I'm guessing that the cost of digging a cutting and its approaches is probably greater than the cost of embankments for a road overbridge - and the fact that it's all a bit close to sea level probably complicates things too.
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« Reply #339 on: June 30, 2014, 18:20:54 »


Anyone thought of lowering the road, and having the railway cross by bridge? St Lukes Road in Bedminster is my inspiration.

I'm sure we've all found St Luke's Rd a source of inspiration at some time in our lives...

I'm guessing that the cost of digging a cutting and its approaches is probably greater than the cost of embankments for a road overbridge - and the fact that it's all a bit close to sea level probably complicates things too.

The other thing you could do I guess is raise the railway - there's plenty of straight track to have gentle-ish incline; and then have the whole station elevated like much of the DLR (Docklands Light Railway) in London ...  Smiley

We could then extend and have the station right in the middle of the high street.   Wink
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #340 on: June 30, 2014, 19:39:59 »

As BNM has said 'level crossings are safe unless used in a unsafe manner
Erm ... that was CfN, not BNM.  Wink
BNM also said it, but later.

Indeed:

One of my fellow moderators, Chris from Nailsea, sums up the issue pretty succinctly in his forum signature:
Quote
'Level crossings on the railway network are safe - unless they are used in an unsafe manner.'
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
JayMac
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« Reply #341 on: June 30, 2014, 19:46:29 »

Where others lead...  Tongue Wink Grin
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TonyK
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« Reply #342 on: June 30, 2014, 20:37:40 »

Where others lead...  Tongue Wink Grin

A true tribute.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #343 on: June 30, 2014, 21:01:27 »

I cannot understand why NR» (Network Rail - home page) has to take a sledgehammer to crack a nut over the question of a level crossing at Quays Avenue. Anyone with half a brain can see it is the most obvious and cost effective solution. I just think NR should be told, cajoled, emailed and petitioned  time and time and time again, until they get sick of all the aggro, and just go ahead and build the damn thing. The three existing options on the table for the station are second, third and fourth best respectively.

You would need to change the mindset of the Office of Rail Regulation, too - they are directing Network Rail in such matters.

From the website of the Office of Rail Regulation:

Quote
Level crossings policy

Our policies and aims on level crossings are set out here. We also explain what we will to do to help ensure the risks from level crossings are properly controlled.

Great Britain's level crossing safety record is among the best in the world, but every incident has the potential for significant human and economic loss. Level crossings are the single biggest source of railway catastrophic risk, but overall the risks are well managed.

We seek to influence dutyholders and others to reduce risk at Britain's level crossings. We do this through a variety of means ranging from advice to formal enforcement action. We check that preventive and protective measures are implemented in accordance with the principles of prevention set out in the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999.

Risk control should, where practicable, be achieved through the removal of level crossings and replacing them with bridges, underpasses or diversions. Where removal is not possible, we aim to ensure that duty holders reduce risk so far as is reasonably practicable and in accordance with the principles of protection.

As the safety regulator for Britain's railways, our role is to provide clear advice and enforce relevant legislation ^ including that which relates to level crossings. We also exercise delegated powers of the Secretary of State in making level crossing orders under the Level Crossings Act 1983.

We believe that it is neither effective nor efficient for only rail companies to be responsible for managing safety at level crossings. Decisions about level crossings should involve rail companies, traffic authorities and other relevant organisations such as planning authorities as early on as possible.

Relevant authorities should recognise the wider benefits that safety improvements at level crossings (for example, replacing them with bridges) can bring about, particularly for road users. If wider benefits can be achieved, the appropriate funding bodies should agree on how the costs of making safety improvements will be met.

We are also committed to helping people understand the importance of the safe use of level crossings.

Our aims

- other than in exceptional circumstances, no new level crossings on any railway therefore creating no new risks; and

- to make level crossing users more aware of what affects safety at level crossings.

What we will do

- we will use current laws on creating and using level crossings to support good practice; and

- we will work closely with Network Rail and other rail companies to help improve safety at level crossings, and be directly involved in working groups and committees where appropriate.

Last updated - 17 April 2014

(My highlighting. CfN.)
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.

"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner."  Discuss.
John R
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« Reply #344 on: June 30, 2014, 21:35:36 »

Other than in exceptional circumstances implies that it is not a total ban. Have NR» (Network Rail - home page) even asked whether a concession could be made? I bet they haven't.

I'm sure passengers would rather travel at 10mph over the crossing and have a station in the town centre than have to walk.
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