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Author Topic: Significant minority find lockdown 'extremely difficult', poll suggests  (Read 12708 times)
grahame
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« on: April 10, 2020, 05:01:35 am »

The subject of this board

Quote
Your rights and redress
What to do if things go wrong - the connection misses or the train's too full.

Well - things have gone spectacularly wrong, haven't they?  Never mind connections missed and overcrowded trains - we're only allowed to travel for essential purposes, and train frequencies have plummeted as have passenger numbers on them.

In these extraordinary times, 94% of us are following the lockdown rules which have trumped personal freedoms "most of the time", "nearly all the time" or "completely" and encouraging the remaining 6% to do better; asking, pleading, instructing ordering that minority of tw**s to do better.   For sure the rules were rushed through and there are inconsistencies - who would have thought it would be legal to order a takeaway by phone, online or post, but not by ham radio? And in amongst te vast majority doing there level best to make this work out for everyone, there's a minority looking to take advantage, and a minority enjoying being able to order others around.

From The BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)

Quote
Significant minority find lockdown 'extremely difficult', poll suggests

Yeah, could have told them that without the survey.   Thats not the first time most of us will have looked at a survey or report and felt it has concluded with a blindingly obvious outcome, yet looking into and reading the detail there is much more in there / that article and valuable data supporting the survey and informing.

Quote
The research, conducted by King's College London and pollsters Ipsos Mori, finds 15% of the population already say they are finding the restrictions very challenging and another 14% expect they will be unable to cope within the next month.

However, nine out of 10 people support the lockdown and have been attempting to follow the government's guidelines on social distancing and handwashing.

By nature, our forum attracts people who travel, so perhaps members of that 15% or the 14% on top are over-represented here?  Or perhaps we're typically the bright types who can cope with just about anything life throws at us?   I am resisting the temptation of adding a poll to ask you - but I am re-assuring members that the forum is here, the chat facility is here (though hardly used), the phone is here (I seem to be up from a daily average of 5 to 30 minutes on the phone!) and whether you're in the 15%, the 14% or the remaining 71% we can, should, and largely are all looking out for each other through this.
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2020, 11:35:02 am »

the rules were rushed through and there are inconsistencies - who would have thought it would be legal to order a takeaway by phone, online or post, but not by ham radio? And in amongst the vast majority doing there level best to make this work out for everyone, there's a minority looking to take advantage, and a minority enjoying being able to order others around.

Quite. I may have got a bit of "bad press" around here just lately regarding the restrictions, and this might be a good thread on which to better explain my position.

In general I support the government’s plan of action and the restrictions, and I fully understand the need for them. So, in my view at least, not a “snowflake” (Christ how I detest dismissive pejorative slang like that...), but that isn’t going to stop me making observations on those restrictions or, more importantly, how they are being implemented.

There are far too many people trying to over-interpret the rules whilst perhaps losing sight of what the rules are for in the first place. They are there to reduce the chance if the disease spreading and they do that by reducing contact between members of the general public. But, in my view, one of the reasons that they have been left, shall we say, woolly, is to stop individual courses of action falling through the cracks.

I have had two relations, SWMBO (She Who Must Be Obeyed) and an uncle in Gloucester on the phone in the last few days, bending my ear about people they have seen buying things in supermarkets that in their opinion were not essential. Yesterday, we had the Chief Constable (I think) of Northamptonshire on radio and TV saying that (paraphrased) if people didn’t start behaving themselves his officers would start inspecting people’s shopping bags to make sure they weren’t buying non-essential items. There was also an item on the news a week or so ago where a Trading Standards Officer was telling stores in his area that selling Easter eggs was against the rules.

The Northampton senior bobby was shot down in flames later yesterday when some new government advice went out that if it was on sale in a shop that was still allowed to open, then you could buy it if you wanted it. And that is how it should be.

I can understand that making a special trip to a supermarket to buy Easter eggs would be a pretty stupid thing to do at the moment, but if you are already there and decide to buy a few? How is stopping that going to help to stop the spread of the infection? It isn’t, is it?

It’s nothing to do with me of course but I have some concerns over the police setting up “hotlines” for people to report rule-breaking. Whilst I can see some limited merit in that, I do wonder how much police time is now being wasted with neighbour disputes, where Mr Smith at no. 6 has fallen out with Mr Bloggs at no.8 and the police are being told that “Bloggs walked round the cul-de-sac once this morning and again this afternoon and you’re only allowed out once so that’s against the rules so you should come and nick him”

Personally I have no time at all for people who take the view that as certain people are breaking the rules we should tighten the rules. Firstly it smacks of collective punishment which, if it isn’t already illegal it damn well should be and, secondly, if you have rules that are being broken you enforce them properly, you don’t make another rod for your own back by making them stricter. That’s a bit like saying “nobody observes the 40 limit down this road so we’ll drop it to 30.” By doing that you probably won’t stop the people doing 50 from keeping on doing it, all you’ll do is criminalise the actions of some others who you didn’t consider were acting criminally beforehand.

These are just a few examples of what I mean when I say that  people perhaps not thinking these things through sufficiently well. I won’t bore you with any more  Grin

Be nice to each other and don't get needlessly wound up Wink


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grahame
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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2020, 12:47:32 pm »

Words like "essential" and "basic" oil the wheels of controversy.

Easter eggs appear as an essential in a Network Rail Press release from yesterday:

Quote
Within hours of making their extended journey north, the Easter eggs, packets of cereal, fruit, veg and other essentials will be on shop shelves for people to buy on their rare trips out for provisions during coronavirus lock-down.

On another thread, I noted one of our members re-assuring us that alcohol was not an essential. For him, maybe, but it would be for some - without it, they would be in the "find lockdown extremely difficult" group.  And for those with children at home for unexpectedly long periods, perhaps even the plastic cricket bat, stumps and ball are essential - as something to keep the children entertained in the garden during the long, hot days.  Even a game of Monopoly only takes *so* long, after all.

Personal view - if you're out to by the basic essentials, then - for goodness sake - you should be able to buy the other stuff that's around.  It may not be necessary for your physical well being, but my goodness it (or a substitute product) may be needed for your sanity.

An area fraught with difficulties to legislate, even were there time to do so.  I recall the old Sunday trading laws which were based on "dated / limited shelf life - OK;  does not expire - not on a Sunday". And that resulted in you being able to buy fresh carrots (but not tinned), and magazines such as Playboy (which are dated) but not a bible.

As Robin Summerhill says

Quote
Be nice to each other and don't get needlessly wound up

 
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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2020, 02:15:20 pm »

Regarding the sale of alcahol, this is from the government website.

• Off-licences and licenced shops selling alcohol, including those within breweries

So thats allright then. I imagine going suddenly without smoking or drinking, when accostmed to doing so could be detramental to health.
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broadgage
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« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2020, 02:40:37 pm »

There certainly seem to be elements within the police and other official bodies that are looking for ways to "gold plate" the emergency regulations, beyond what the intent was or what is reasonably required for public health.

Local examples include.

A view by the police that "barbecues" are illegal. On private property and only attended by those resident in that property. There is no such regulation.

A view by the police that "going to the beach" is illegal, even when the beach is within walking distance and almost empty.

A view that going outdoors but within your own property is illegal except for the permitted essential purposes. There is no such regulation that prevents use of ones own garden, courtyard, field or other outdoor parts of ones property.
The teenage daughters of a local farmer were warned by the police for sunbathing in a field owned by their father, with whom they live. "sunbathing is not exercise, therefore it is prohibited"

A view not based on any actual regulation, that outdoor exercise is limited to an hour. How long until parking wardens are re deployed to ticket people who have been out for 64 minutes ?
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2020, 02:46:35 pm »

On the Gloucester Road in Bristol there is a wine merchant's and a homebrew / beer shop almost opposite each other. When I went shopping on Tuesday, the wine merchant's was closed but the homebrew place was open. I don't think this is the result of rules or enforcement but individual commercial decisions.
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grahame
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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2020, 03:25:32 pm »

There certainly seem to be elements within the police and other official bodies that are looking for ways to "gold plate" the emergency regulations, beyond what the intent was or what is reasonably required for public health.

[snip]

Clarification from the BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)

Quote
Downing Street says people are allowed to buy whatever they want from shops that remain open, after concerns that police are overstepping lockdown powers.

Some police forces have warned shoppers against buying "non-essential" items.

No 10 also said people can use their gardens as they wish, after a video showed police confronting a family for letting their children play outside.

The government's own TV adverts don't help the "outside" message by telling you to stay indoors unless absolutely necessary. 
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broadgage
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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2020, 03:41:07 pm »

This news report suggests that HMG wish to reign in some excesses of some local police forces.
It is confirmed that people may use their gardens as normal, and anything sold by shops that remain open may be purchased.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52245937
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2020, 04:44:29 pm »

If you go to the shops to buy items that are essential eg vegetables, fruit, milk, bread, then there has never been anything stopping anyone picking up some crisps, chocolate biscuits, or a pair of sock s at the same time.

I believe that the intention of the government is that people aren't going out to the shops all the time, but only when they need to replenish essential supplies. A further issue is that what might be essential to person A may not be viewed the same way by persons B, C and D.
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Marlburian
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2020, 04:49:30 pm »

At midday today, I was walking though a nature reserve about half-a-mile from a village of 500 people, with any other habitation being a couple of miles away. I met two police officers  who were investigating an increase in complaints about, ahem, "anti-social behaviour". The site has a reputation for "dogging" and "cottaging".

We chatted for a few minutes and they didn't seem bothered how I happened to be there, and obviously my air of respectability - and senility - convinced them that I was not there with impure intentions.
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grahame
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2020, 04:57:46 pm »

If you go to the shops to buy items that are essential eg vegetables, fruit, milk, bread, then there has never been anything stopping anyone picking up some crisps, chocolate biscuits, or a pair of sock s at the same time.

I believe that the intention of the government is that people aren't going out to the shops all the time, but only when they need to replenish essential supplies. A further issue is that what might be essential to person A may not be viewed the same way by persons B, C and D.

I'm pretty sure you're right, Nick Brown ... and welcome to the forum.   Are you "locked down" at present like most of us?  These are strange times indeed - the first Easter ever, I suspect where the message is not one f positive promotion of rail use.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2020, 05:46:15 pm »

At midday today, I was walking though a nature reserve about half-a-mile from a village of 500 people, with any other habitation being a couple of miles away. I met two police officers  who were investigating an increase in complaints about, ahem, "anti-social behaviour". The site has a reputation for "dogging" and "cottaging".

We chatted for a few minutes and they didn't seem bothered how I happened to be there, and obviously my air of respectability - and senility - convinced them that I was not there with impure intentions.

A likely story!  Wink
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eightonedee
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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2020, 06:13:27 pm »

Sadly, as a member of the organisation that owns the reserve in question, I know where Marlburian was - Moor Copse at Tidmarsh.

Odd how that "community" chooses its favoured locations.
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Marlburian
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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2020, 07:03:11 pm »

Is there nowhere I can hide? Grin

I haven't worked there on Sundays this past winter but have done so for some years before. I was in the habit of getting a Sunday paper and driving down there early to read itin the somewhat secluded car park. But ever since a burly guy tried to speak to me through the window, I've parked  in the approach road. (One reason for my not going there much is driving out onto the main road has become trickier, with an eroded trench of a pothole alongside the main road. Doesn't do the car tyres any good as one accelerates into a gap in the traffic.)

At the risk of seeming an expert on such sites, there appears to be another one on the north-south stretch of the "modern" Ridgeway route north east of Ogbourne St George - judging from the council signs warning against antisocial behaviour. Rather more remote.
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broadgage
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« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2020, 07:25:22 pm »

Words like "essential" and "basic" oil the wheels of controversy.

Easter eggs appear as an essential in a Network Rail Press release from yesterday:

Quote
Within hours of making their extended journey north, the Easter eggs, packets of cereal, fruit, veg and other essentials will be on shop shelves for people to buy on their rare trips out for provisions during coronavirus lock-down.

On another thread, I noted one of our members re-assuring us that alcohol was not an essential. For him, maybe, but it would be for some - without it, they would be in the "find lockdown extremely difficult" group.  And for those with children at home for unexpectedly long periods, perhaps even the plastic cricket bat, stumps and ball are essential - as something to keep the children entertained in the garden during the long, hot days.  Even a game of Monopoly only takes *so* long, after all.

Personal view - if you're out to by the basic essentials, then - for goodness sake - you should be able to buy the other stuff that's around.  It may not be necessary for your physical well being, but my goodness it (or a substitute product) may be needed for your sanity.

An area fraught with difficulties to legislate, even were there time to do so.  I recall the old Sunday trading laws which were based on "dated / limited shelf life - OK;  does not expire - not on a Sunday". And that resulted in you being able to buy fresh carrots (but not tinned), and magazines such as Playboy (which are dated) but not a bible.

As Robin Summerhill says

Quote
Be nice to each other and don't get needlessly wound up

 

If you were thinking of me in the above, ISTR (I seem to recall/remember) that I only stated that I did not consider alcohol to be essential, I fully accept that some would find it essential. And I would mis it.
And anyway the government have said that we can still buy drink, no doubt much to the disgust of some police men.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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