Things that need to change: 'Beg buttons'

[whole diary]

[Bmblbzzz]

He also said that there needs to be a delay between pressing the button and the lights going from green to amber regardless of traffic on the road, because if there wasn't, pedestrians would get used to being able to cross immediately.

Was it his mouth he was talking through, or is that just a view based on the pedestrians of Bristol?

I'm not quite sure what you mean grahame? I took it he was giving the official view, which is not necessarily his private view or a realistic picture of pedestrian behaviour. I'm sure that official view will vary from one highway authority to another.

[grahame]

He also said that there needs to be a delay between pressing the button and the lights going from green to amber regardless of traffic on the road, because if there wasn't, pedestrians would get used to being able to cross immediately.

Was it his mouth he was talking through, or is that just a view based on the pedestrians of Bristol?

I'm not quite sure what you mean grahame? I took it he was giving the official view, which is not necessarily his private view or a realistic picture of pedestrian behaviour. I'm sure that official view will vary from one highway authority to another.

I was suggesting that the highways expert from Bristol was not being at all complementary to habits that he felt his pedestrians would get into if the lights changed straight away for them.  Odd that, as many sets of traffic lights sense drivers approaching and will quickly change in their favour if there's no other traffic around.   The difference suggests to me that vehicle drivers are treated as a different class of person than those on foot.

[1st fan]

The options are called "Fixed Vehicle Period" (or change on demand subject to minimum green time), "Vehicle Actuated" (but with minimum and maximum green time), "Vehicle Actuated with Pre-Timed Maximum (PTM)" (almost the same), or "Linked Operation" (an add-on to allow inputs from another junction). It goes on to include pedestrian and cycle detectors, and a delay on the pedestrian button.
 
I have got the idea from somewhere that Siemens' own preferred mode is the first one with no button delay, but councils keep demanding the delay because it's "fairer". But I may have imagined that. Certainly logic favours option 1 as stated.

I spoke to a TFL^▸ (Transport for London) employee who worked in the department that was responsible for the traffic lights for Central London. TFL can centrally control a large swathe of traffic lights in London. He said there are tons of lights in London where pushing the button merely lights up the "Wait" sign. It's there to make people think they're going to cross faster but has no effect on the timing. This is very often used when the lights are in a tightly defined sequence say at major junctions or roundabouts. One set near a large junction apparently was supposed to be set like that and wasn't. There had been maintenance one afternoon and it had been incorrectly set. Not a massive problem until rush hour where because of repeated button use by the public a queue of cars had built up. This eventually reached the major junction and then blocked that too. Somebody had to be dispatched to deal with it ASAP before it caused gridlock.

[eightonedee]

He said there are tons of lights in London where pushing the button merely lights up the "Wait" sign.

I thought that this was the case quite widely - and might be a feature that only operates at peak times in many places?

[Red Squirrel]

He said there are tons of lights in London where pushing the button merely lights up the "Wait" sign.

...so well worth the risk of passing on Covid-19 then! 

[1st fan]

He said there are tons of lights in London where pushing the button merely lights up the "Wait" sign.

I thought that this was the case quite widely - and might be a feature that only operates at peak times in many places?

I only know what he told me although this was a while ago. Near my usual weekday address in London there are lights that can be influenced
a) Whatever time of day it is
b) Never
c) Outside of peak times

That's based on my usage of them and some are near major junctions etc. Yes on occasion I have timed them to check if waiting for someone or something.
 

[smokey]

What's the difference between a Puffin and Pelican Crossing?

Regardless of Puffin or Pelican crossing whom has noticed that these Crossings NO LONGER had audible Beeps whilst the Green Man shows.

2 reasons for this the Audible Beeps had to be silenced between 23:30 and 07:00 and were of no use to those who are Deaf and the beeps were replaced by a rotating Knob underneath essential for the Blind.

[bradshaw]

The Puffin crossings have the crossing lights on your side of the road. They are placed On the right hand side of the crossing so that generally you can see the oncoming traffic at the same time.

We have a set in the town centre and the timing drives you crazy. If you miss the green man you can wait some time for it to come around again.

We locals know the sequence of the main lights and cross accordingly, quite safely.

The Pelican crossings have the pedestrian lights on the opposite side of the road.

[LiskeardRich]

There is a set in a junction in Newquay that has always been (as long as I’ve been bus driving that way at least) road 1, pedestrian, road 2, road 1 repeat in sequence

[Bmblbzzz]

Regardless of Puffin or Pelican crossing whom has noticed that these Crossings NO LONGER had audible Beeps whilst the Green Man shows.

2 reasons for this the Audible Beeps had to be silenced between 23:30 and 07:00 and were of no use to those who are Deaf and the beeps were replaced by a rotating Knob underneath essential for the Blind.

Some do still beep, but only the standalone crossings. If those at junctions beeped, it could be confusing (unless set up to have an all-arms pedestrian green phase). They might well turn the beeps off at night, I don't know.

Another thing that was mentioned by the Ped Xing Engineer was that the beeps are useful in giving the blind something to aim for.

[stuving]

He said there are tons of lights in London where pushing the button merely lights up the "Wait" sign.

I thought that this was the case quite widely - and might be a feature that only operates at peak times in many places?

I wonder, what do you expect a button-push at a junction would do if it did do something? I can think of one effect basically: where a pedestrian green takes up part of the cycle, then if no-one pushes the button it could be skipped. Where a pedestrian green crosses traffic that is stopped anyway, in the past it might get a green always - but these days they may get extended and controllers will only start the green if asked. That looks almost the same, unless you have to programme it.

Obviously, if you want to know what's available then one of those Siemens handbooks (see above) is the place - try the ST950 Facilities Handbook. But do be warned; while that has all the hardware installation stuff left out, it is still 303 pages!

[Bob_Blakey]

My preferred solution to this issue is the modified zebra crossing which incorporates a separate cycling crossing within the placing of the Belisha beacons and is therefore, I assume, governed by the same 'road traffic is required to stop' regulations as pertain to a 'standard' zebra crossing.

[ellendune]

My preferred solution to this issue is the modified zebra crossing which incorporates a separate cycling crossing within the placing of the Belisha beacons and is therefore, I assume, governed by the same 'road traffic is required to stop' regulations as pertain to a 'standard' zebra crossing.

But that would only work in some cases where there is an intermittent pedestrian traffic flow. Where the pedestrian traffic is continuous, giving pedestrians on demand priority all the time would bring road traffic to a halt. 

[bobm]

There is a crossing near me which is at the point where two one way streets come together on another one way street.

After a period of no traffic on either leg, it reverts to red for both roads.   If at that point a pedestrian presses the button the green man is shown straight way, almost like the button was a light switch.  The problem is as the crossing has no audible alarm and people don't expect it to change that quick they often miss it until it starts flashing.

[Bmblbzzz]

That's interesting, in light of the "expectations".