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Author Topic: "Nationalisation should be a stepping stone to a better private railway network"  (Read 2001 times)
grahame
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« on: April 17, 2020, 06:57:00 »

From Conservative Home

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By George Bathhurst George Bathurst is a former Conservative Councillor and Lead Member at Royal Borough of Windsor and Maidenhead. As well as promoting better transport solutions he works in IT infrastructure and cyber security.

"A Conservative government has renationalised the railways, having suspended all the commercial franchises as the Coronavirus lockdown began.

"On the face of it, this is a big setback for ConservativeHome readers who believe in the value of free enterprise. The Daily Telegraph thinks that there is no way back. There is, however, a better version of the future available to us.

I am personally in agreement that current changes will help us towards a better railway setup, but can we please leave the options on the table and not assume that there because some elements of the current system have failed, the answer must be changes along the line suggested by Mr Bathhurst.   The current less than ideal situation if, of course, the fault of our of fashion politicians from the last millenium, further messed up by a Labour government:

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First of all, it’s worth reminding ourselves that the partial ‘privatisation’ of the railways in 1997 was botched, rushed through by a badly discredited John Major at the very end of his term. The reform was undermined from the outset by Tony Blair, who seized on the Hatfield crash to semi-renationalise the tracks. This further bodged a complex and opaque system that might have been designed to give privatisation a bad name.

There is a common frustration with just how long it takes to get rail improvements, and Mr B knows about that

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After ten years of promoting one, I have personal experience of how the system works to stop rail improvements.

[snip] - Seven paragraphs on the Windsor Link proposals

He goes on to explain why the system is currently as it is

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You can understand why the system exists: it protects both civil servants and ministers from blame, because nobody is responsible. But this is also the reason why I, as a private rail promoter, am pleased that Grant Shapps has effectively nationalised the railways.

Ah ... I wondered why it was so complex  Grin

Quote
There are two things that can happen now. The worse is that the crazy system continues, just wholly inside the government. The political issue with this is that there is now nobody else to blame. The the inability of the existing, over-centralised system to deliver for today’s passengers, let alone expansions to the network, will soon overwhelm the current Secretary of State just as they did his predecessor.

The better outcome is that nationalisation serves as a temporary step, not just for the Coronavirus crisis and not just before reverting to the status quo ante, but as a clean slate for a far more fundamental change to the way we build transport infrastructure. This is the opportunity for local government, communities, and the private sector to step up.

Mr Burke goes on to suggest that 'judge' and 'jury' are too closely linked and tells us to solve that ...

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We need, therefore, to separate out the functions of the designing and building railways from approving them. The DfT» (Department for Transport - about) needs to have a role more analogous to the Planning Inspectorate for buildings. That is, it is responsible for approving new transport infrastructure, but not for proposing or delivering them, let alone operations.

In retrospect, I was over-optimistic that the Government had begun to recognise this two years ago when I was partly responsible for the ‘Market-Led Proposals’ initiative. It was being inundated with rail ideas and needed a consistent way to deal with them. It turned out to be a trap, and all 35 of us that submitted formal proposals had our time and money wasted, being turned down for one reason or another.

The stumbling block was that the Government was fixated on perfect competition. It wanted, as one official explained to me, to compare apples with apples. I responded that comparing apples with oranges is what we all do every time we go to the supermarket and we do it just fine.

We need a similar ‘competition of ideas’ for the railways: where you don’t need to be an existing incumbent to propose an improvement; where individuals are treated equally regardless of background; and their ideas are considered on the same basis as officials’ own ideas. Crucial to making this work is putting responsibility for delivering the promised improvements onto the same people who propose them.

I find myself far from convinced that we would end up with a network - rather we could be back to the very early days of railways where construction of local lines was by the local businessmen, who then discover that it wasn't as profitable / easy as they had hoped and contracted operation of their line to a mainline company, then were bought out by that company.  I do find myself agreeing with the looking at ideas, but I'm unconvinced that "individuals regardless of background" can have the same overview of the picture of what can be done and would work  as those who have been in the industry for many years.     Far better, in my view, to combine the ideas as skills to add together the elements to produce a bigger and better whole to take us forward.  And, yes, that may mean that ideas such as the Windsor Link don't make it, or don't make it in the form that the borough leader wants for people within the borough.  Better, maybe, to link north - south via Heathrow?



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CyclingSid
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2020, 07:02:59 »

With respect to a fire in London, I am not sure that the building planning system is necessarily a suitable model.
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RichardB
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2020, 09:21:10 »

I know this is going off at a tangent, but what's the motivation behind the Windsor Link?  Looking at their website https://windsorlink.co.uk/, other than it being an interesting thing to do, I've not picked up just why it is being pursued? 
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Lee
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2020, 09:54:19 »

I find myself far from convinced that we would end up with a network - rather we could be back to the very early days of railways where construction of local lines was by the local businessmen, who then discover that it wasn't as profitable / easy as they had hoped and contracted operation of their line to a mainline company, then were bought out by that company.  I do find myself agreeing with the looking at ideas, but I'm unconvinced that "individuals regardless of background" can have the same overview of the picture of what can be done and would work  as those who have been in the industry for many years...

grahame - Both you and I have campaigned for many years for rail and public transport improvements, and have had various technical proposals confirmed as credible and viable by key industry players over that period.

However, as far as "been in the industry" is concerned, the closest either of us have come is to both having been TransWilts Community Rail Officer at different times. So what does that make us? - "individuals regardless of background" or "those who have been in the industry for many years" ?
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RichardB
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2020, 10:05:49 »

I know this is going off at a tangent, but what's the motivation behind the Windsor Link?  Looking at their website https://windsorlink.co.uk/, other than it being an interesting thing to do, I've not picked up just why it is being pursued? 

Just found the main thread and this -

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5883.msg243301#msg243301
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eightf48544
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2020, 12:11:38 »

The Windsor link is an interesting example of do you choose to live in X and work in Y because the commute is easy. People in Slough tend to work on the estate, London, LHR or other parts of the Thames Valley especialy if they travel by train. But probably not South of the Thames.

People from Windsor tend to use either the Slough line to get to London and the  Waterloo line if they work near to a station on the line, or else a car to the M4.

There seems to be little demand for a Slough to Staines, Richmond link.

Whether it would encourage people from Richmond or Staines to work in Slough is debateable.

Now the Western Rail link to Heathrow is far more interesting, if LHR ever gets going again (I actually heard a plane the other day).

Plus of course Bourne End  Wycombe to link South Bucks with Aylesbury, Milton Keynes.

Not sure I've put this very well.
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grahame
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« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2020, 12:42:22 »

grahame - Both you and I have campaigned for many years for rail and public transport improvements, and have had various technical proposals confirmed as credible and viable by key industry players over that period.

However, as far as "been in the industry" is concerned, the closest either of us have come is to both having been TransWilts Community Rail Officer at different times. So what does that make us? - "individuals regardless of background" or "those who have been in the industry for many years" ?

We are neither ... but then we are both.

Please excuse the enigmatic answer. "Individuals regardless of background" is the wording from George Bathurst. That might appear to advocate taking a proposal from a solitary person who's just seeing just their daily journey from (say) Belford to Berwick-upon-Tweed for a service every 30 minutes and giving it the same credence as the input from someone (or a group) who's background or experience  has encouraged them to think through what traffic levels might be and what the issues would be.

I'm all in favour of people asking.  I started as an individual in 2005, asking - but rapidly built up a background of knowledge, and moved on from asking as an individual to asking with a whole lot of others as a group, with successive cycles of asking each better informed and with a more substantial support group.




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paul7575
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« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2020, 13:13:12 »

I know this is going off at a tangent, but what's the motivation behind the Windsor Link?  Looking at their website https://windsorlink.co.uk/, other than it being an interesting thing to do, I've not picked up just why it is being pursued? 
A property scam masquerading as a railway “great idea”, by some opinions.  A solution to a non existent problem that has apparently been rejected by the DfT» (Department for Transport - about).   

I suppose it keeps his name in the papers, by being regularly regurgitated, even though it’s never likely to happen...

Paul
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eightonedee
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« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2020, 18:47:33 »

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Quote from: grahame on Today at 06:57:00 am
I find myself far from convinced that we would end up with a network - rather we could be back to the very early days of railways where construction of local lines was by the local businessmen, who then discover that it wasn't as profitable / easy as they had hoped and contracted operation of their line to a mainline company, then were bought out by that company.  I do find myself agreeing with the looking at ideas, but I'm unconvinced that "individuals regardless of background" can have the same overview of the picture of what can be done and would work  as those who have been in the industry for many years...

grahame - Both you and I have campaigned for many years for rail and public transport improvements, and have had various technical proposals confirmed as credible and viable by key industry players over that period.

However, as far as "been in the industry" is concerned, the closest either of us have come is to both having been TransWilts Community Rail Officer at different times. So what does that make us? - "individuals regardless of background" or "those who have been in the industry for many years" ?

That's exactly the conundrum our society faces. On the other hand we distrust those who run the public services we use, on the other hand we are (rightly) suspicious of a substantial proportion of those who put themselves forward as representatives of the public when representatives on consultation groups, user groups and the like. Sadly they are not all Graham Ellis - some are mini Donald Trumps! But can you think of a better system that does not involve a Soviet style selection by the powers that be to ensure that only approved "People's Representatives" get appointed?

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