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Author Topic: What constitutes a London terminus? [DotD 18.4.2020]  (Read 4896 times)
grahame
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« on: April 18, 2020, 05:14:58 »

Which London terminus or terminii would you recommend that your distant relatives from New Zealand, visiting for a few weeks in the summer of 2021, take a look at?  They have an interest in architecture ...

I will open a poll on Thursday 23rd and run it for a week - allowing members to vote for as few or as many stations as they wish to suggest to Oliver and Amelia (currently the two most popular names in New Zealand).  But I have a problem - what is the definition of a London Terminus?   Circling around, I came across these candidates within my memory.

Fenchurch Street
Aldgate
Liverpool Street
Broad Street
Moorgate
Kings Cross
St Pancras
Euston
Baker Street
Marylebone
Paddington
Victoria
Charing Cross
Waterloo
Blackfriars
Holborn Viaduct
Cannon Street
London Bridge

Sadly, Broad Street and Holborn Viaduct should not be included in the vote (my view) - nothing for O and A to see any longer; Broad Street had its magnificense, and I have a fondess for Holborn Viaduct which was my commute station for a number of years.

Aldgate and Baker Street are purely Transport for London (Metropolitain Line) but perhaps it's politics rather than architecture that leaves them off the National Rail network.  Moorgate may come as a surprise, but it *is* the terminus for Great Northern National Rail suburban service.

London Bridge, Waterloo, Blackfriars and St Pancras all have a considerable number of through National Rail trains, but in all cases I have included them as terminii in my list - am I correct to do so?

Should Kings Cross and St Pancras be treated as a single station?  Should Waterloo (and London Bridge, and even Victoria) each be treated as two?

Not listed - pure TfL» (Transport for London - about) stations such as Tower Gateway. Kensington (Olympia) (although I have left from there on Motorail). Bank (although it was a National Rail terminal in my memory, with trains to Waterloo).  Anywhere else I have left out that should be considered
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rogerpatenall
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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2020, 09:26:26 »

I know that the intention is to consider only the inner London destination of 'up' trains, but, from the phrasing of the question, Bromley North is definitely in London. Geographically and administratively I am not sure if Hayes is in London or Kent, but am inclined to think it is in the London borough of Bromley. (Although I can't remember whether Hayes has any architectural merit!. My distant memory is of some fine platform awning.)

If you do include LUL (London Underground Ltd), then the District Line trainshed at Ealing is also worth a photo.
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CyclingSid
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2020, 09:44:31 »

I think it might be worth distinguishing between the train shed and the station building. Regrettably in some cases the accountants have had a "mezzanine" floor installed in the train sheds to optimise the financial situation. This tends to result in a low dark oppressive area to actually join/leave trains. Victorian CCEs understood that there was a relationship between floor area and ceiling height which gave some of the wonderful train sheds we know.
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2020, 10:14:55 »

Chingford
Chessington South
Hayes (Kent)

Those three have some interesting architecture  Grin
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eightonedee
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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2020, 10:30:44 »

If they are interested in architecture, I would not bother trying to limit them to terminus stations. Go for any station that is worth a look - York comes to mind immediately, and a nice day (or two) out to go to look at it into the bargain.
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grahame
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2020, 10:32:05 »

Yes ... my thoughts were really the (inner) London termini - doubting that Oliver and Amelia would be motivated to travel out to the likes of Bromley North, Richmond or Cockfosters. If I try do define it I would suggest 4km from The Cross at Charing Cross.


I am - sorry CyclingSid - not tempted to separate station buildings and train sheds into separate polls - but I do fancy after the vote (if still living in lockdown!) writing them up in the form of one of those click-bate surveys with a picture of each and a description.  Such a writeup would include highlight and lowlights of each of them - starting at (say) 10th then moving up after an infuriating number of pages to the top station to visit.

P.S. We have the knowledge on this forum to do are darned sight better in our descriptions than you typically see on sequences such as "best dog breed as a family pet" which come up with some ridiculous opinions.

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grahame
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2020, 10:36:38 »

Chingford
Chessington South
Hayes (Kent)

Those three have some interesting architecture  Grin

If they are interested in architecture, I would not bother trying to limit them to terminus stations. Go for any station that is worth a look - York comes to mind immediately, and a nice day (or two) out to go to look at it into the bargain.

Gents, you posted while while I was answering the earlier comments ...

I fear we are 'here' in lockdown for a long time.   My thought is to use just some of the material this time around rather than chucking all the wonderful logs we have on the fire all at the same time ... yes, for days out to see wonderful stations; yes for stations in Greater London that aren't inner termini ... but those are next in the series, rather than in this episode.
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2020, 10:43:28 »

Understood.  Just that I thought Chessington South was a lovely example of 1930s concrete architecture thats now gone to pot.... Tongue

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grahame
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2020, 10:52:57 »

Understood.  Just that I thought Chessington South was a lovely example of 1930s concrete architecture thats now gone to pot.... Tongue

A very interesting example of a terminus that was not intended to be such when it was built!

Station for "Chessington Zoo" ... now "Chessington World of Adventure".  I do recall in an 'earlier life' walking across from that station to the attraction, then back afterwards in a flow of people.  I wonder, these days, whether the railway is a significant carrier of passengers to the World of Adventure.
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Reginald25
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2020, 12:36:45 »

Crystal Palace, historical architecture and wide staircases. Now the terminus for TfL» (Transport for London - about) trains.
I guess however that by terminus you mean the grand overall roof stations like Paddington etc, in which case you have all the main ones listed. You might want to add Blackfriars (2 terminal platforms) and with a very interesting structure across the river
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2020, 12:45:08 »

In purely architectural terms I'd probably go for St Pancras and Waterloo.
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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2020, 12:53:06 »

In purely architectural terms I'd probably go for St Pancras and Waterloo.

Me too and add Paddington.  If they fancy heading out into the suburbs, Chessington South and Bromley North would be the two I'd go for.
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bradshaw
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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2020, 12:58:37 »

The elegance of Kings Cross, especially now the front area ha been cleared.
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eightonedee
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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2020, 13:48:47 »

Following S&T (Signalling and Telegraph)'s example in getting back to sticking to the rules, I'd add my vote to St Pancras, King's Cross, Waterloo and Paddington. They are in a different league to the rest.
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grahame
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« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2020, 14:37:31 »

Opinions / canvassing for certain stations is welcome ... but we're in a pre-vote.

I will open a poll on Thursday 23rd and run it for a week - allowing members to vote for as few or as many stations as they wish ...

Making sure I get the correct stations for you to choose from ... which should (and should not) be there.  I'm thinking "no" for Holborn Viaduct and Broad Street, a "yes" for Blackfriars, a "probably" for Moorgate and a "probably not" for Aldgate and  Baker Street.  But views on those choices very welcome.

Come 23rd, we'll do a vote

Early May, a nice writeup of the whole thing.
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