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Author Topic: DfT sifts 60 new rail plans  (Read 2459 times)
grahame
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« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2020, 07:45:12 pm »

I heard mention of Fleetwood whilst I was reading the paper during that broadcast. I can't see it mentioned anywhere since I started listening properly.

Blyth / Washington, Fleetwood and Peterlee all got a mention outside the award list - I think they are separate and ahead, or different situations where the political can may drown the financial one.
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paul7755
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« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2020, 10:41:52 am »

I heard mention of Fleetwood whilst I was reading the paper during that broadcast. I can't see it mentioned anywhere since I started listening properly.

Blyth / Washington, Fleetwood and Peterlee all got a mention outside the award list - I think they are separate and ahead, or different situations where the political can may drown the financial one.
Definitely.  This ten is a new list of ideas in a particular process. It definitely must not be read as the only schemes on the DfTs radar, Ive seen this mistake being made in a number of forums.

Paul
« Last Edit: May 25, 2020, 12:52:50 pm by paul7755 » Logged
Celestial
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« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2020, 10:16:46 am »


30 minute service, trains passing in the middle, sounds sensible and I expect the money is to work out in more detail than has been done so far ...
a) is it sensible
b) how would it be done
c) what would it cost

You'd imagine with such a simple scheme that it wouldn't take too long to work out b) and c). 

How would it be done?  Um, with a passing loop of just the right length, at a convenient place roughly half way along the line.  Only debate would be whether to have it a) at a station, with all the additional costs of a second platform, b) at a station with a Penryn style arrangement or c) in between stations, to keep build costs to a minimum.

How much would it cost?  Well two relatively low speed switches and a bit of track, a simple signalling solution, and any station work depending on the answer above.   Running costs should be relatively easy to work out too.

How much consultancy will that take?     
An interesting note from IanVisits which links to a report, which appears to have done all the leg work in terms of the above assessment.

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/05/26/funding-to-upgrade-the-railway-between-watford-and-st-albans/

and the report

http://www.abfly.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Abfly-report-v8.pdf

So given the overall pot for all the schemes mentioned was 500k to further investigation, I'm not sure what work needs to be done to progress this scheme, which could be achieved with the funding available. Which makes me suspicious that the whole announcement was a lot of fluff and very little meaningful substance.

(And the answers were a) yes, b) a Penryn passing loop, c) 9m.   )
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hoover50
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« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2020, 11:43:18 am »

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Two in our area ...

1. Cullompton and Wellington

2. Lydeway (Devizes Parkway)


Building a new station at Lydeway (Devizes Parkway) is a stupid idea.

A far better solution would be to reinstate the branch line into Devizes town centre and extend the Bedwyn trains to terminate there.
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Robin Summerhill
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« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2020, 11:49:20 am »


Building a new station at Lydeway (Devizes Parkway) is a stupid idea.

A far better solution would be to reinstate the branch line into Devizes town centre and extend the Bedwyn trains to terminate there.

Which is cheaper and far more likely to happen?
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Celestial
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« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2020, 12:42:19 pm »


Building a new station at Lydeway (Devizes Parkway) is a stupid idea.

A far better solution would be to reinstate the branch line into Devizes town centre and extend the Bedwyn trains to terminate there.

Which is cheaper and far more likely to happen?
Well it isn't a highly marginal constituency with an imminent general election, so I'm inclined to agree with you. Rebuilding a branch line for a town with a population of around 12,000 would appear to offer a poor benefit cost ratio, in comparison to other potential projects which might get support from senior government officials, such as Bishop Auckland to Barnard Castle. 
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ellendune
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« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2020, 01:31:44 pm »

Well it isn't a highly marginal constituency with an imminent general election, so I'm inclined to agree with you. Rebuilding a branch line for a town with a population of around 12,000 would appear to offer a poor benefit cost ratio, in comparison to other potential projects which might get support from senior government officials, such as Bishop Auckland to Barnard Castle. 

Much safer for people with eyesight problems than driving to Barnards Castle.
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grahame
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« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2020, 03:33:18 pm »


Building a new station at Lydeway (Devizes Parkway) is a stupid idea.

A far better solution would be to reinstate the branch line into Devizes town centre and extend the Bedwyn trains to terminate there.

Which is cheaper and far more likely to happen?

Devizes Parkway (Lydeway) v branch into Devizes

The capital cost of a branch into Devizes - 75 million to 90 million; new station at Lydeway - 15 million.  Five times as expensive into Devizes - would it bring five or six times the benefit?   I really doubt in, which means it would have a far less positive benefit cost ratio.

Questions to be answered if you look for a re-opened branch into Devizes

Where would you place Devizes Station?
a) Outskirts of town (Marshall Road)
b) Pans Lane
c) Behind Long Street
d) Station Road
Even to Marshall Road, you have considerable engineering
Inward of Marshall Road, the trackbed is obliterated under houses
Inward of Long Street, you would need to re-open Devizes Tunnel
At the main line (east) end, significant track needed beyond Lydeway to bring Devizes branch down to main line level
- Sure, they call all be overcome but not cheap

What services would use it? / How would it work?
You suggest extending the Bedwyns. Yes, but that would preclude them from extending to Westbury.
By extending the Bedwyns, you would be providing a long distance stopper to Reading (and that might be right)
Would you cater for Devizes westward traffic - to Westbury, the West Country, Bath and Bristol?
Devizes urban is around 15,000; Devizes AREA around 30,000. Would you provide parking at the Town Station?

Some Lydeway elements which would not apply to Town stations

Initial 2 hourly service by trains already passing the site
Those exisiting service are semi-fast - not the Bedwyn stoppers
Good options for travelling west as well as east
Picks up rural catchment without need to travel into / park in Devizes

I would agree that Lydeway is not perfect
- few people will walk there; perhaps some will cycle (but unless you go inwards of Pan's Lane, much the same applies to a Devizes branch)
- If you're headed for Bath / Bristol it will feel preverse from the town to start off heading east

Lydeway strikes me as probably right for a significant catchment that's fairly well spread;  had it been built while I lived in Easterton it would have been my local station rather than seeing the trains hurtling past on their way between Pewsey many miles to the east and Westbury many miles to the West.
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eightonedee
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« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2020, 06:44:42 pm »

This is interesting - as someone who normally travels into Devizes from the northeast and leaves to the west (i.e. passing through by road on the A361) I do not know this side of town. If the parkway station is built on the south east side at Lydeway, it would be sensible to "grow" Devizes in this direction, as (in the absence of other planning constraints unknown to me) this would become a more sustainable location for residential development. And more people on this side of town should make any connecting bus service more sustainable, too.

Of course, if you currently live on the south east side of town you may not agree......
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grahame
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« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2020, 08:18:40 pm »

This is interesting - as someone who normally travels into Devizes from the northeast and leaves to the west (i.e. passing through by road on the A361) I do not know this side of town. If the parkway station is built on the south east side at Lydeway, it would be sensible to "grow" Devizes in this direction, as (in the absence of other planning constraints unknown to me) this would become a more sustainable location for residential development. And more people on this side of town should make any connecting bus service more sustainable, too.

Of course, if you currently live on the south east side of town you may not agree......

That is a natural side of the town to grow on ... to the west, north west and north east, leaving Devizes you soon hit steep hills - Dunkirk Hill, Caen Hill and the gully on the way to Potterne, with the old road / lane dropping to Drews Pond. Much more sensible to extend the town to the north east (that's the A361 but it runs into a bank of industry) and south east (the A342 via Lydeway).    The 270 bus should run every hour in a loop from Devizes via The Lavington, Urchfont and Lydeway back into Devizes already, alternate directions, so you already have a bus past the station lane.
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CyclingSid
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« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2020, 07:19:02 am »

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I would agree that Lydeway is not perfect
- few people will walk there; perhaps some will cycle (but unless you go inwards of Pan's Lane, much the same applies to a Devizes branch)

So if you make it Lydeway, can you make the old track a cycle route to it. Probably the cheapest part of the many millions.
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grahame
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« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2020, 07:25:37 am »

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I would agree that Lydeway is not perfect
- few people will walk there; perhaps some will cycle (but unless you go inwards of Pan's Lane, much the same applies to a Devizes branch)

So if you make it Lydeway, can you make the old track a cycle route to it. Probably the cheapest part of the many millions.

Utterly sensible provided it's dual use for walkers too.  The A342 (road Devizes past Lydeway) is fast and has a significant rise and fall.  Not sure if / how much has been filled in where the back lane / village street in Stert crossed over railway which was in a cutting. 
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« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2020, 07:41:45 am »

A Devizes Central ? who says you don't get surprises livin' in Devizes..might have to Adge my bets ! Roll Eyes
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« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2020, 10:34:33 am »

A Devizes Parkway could be the nudge needed to get the hourly Paddington to Bedwyn service extended to Westbury giving both it, and Pewsey, a boost.  It would also make westbound journeys from Hungerford, Kinrbury and Bedwyn much more attractive.  So, several winners if it happens - not just for Devizes itself.
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« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2020, 02:29:56 pm »

A Devizes Parkway could be the nudge needed to get the hourly Paddington to Bedwyn service extended to Westbury giving both it, and Pewsey, a boost.  It would also make westbound journeys from Hungerford, Kinrbury and Bedwyn much more attractive.  So, several winners if it happens - not just for Devizes itself.

Another thought is that it could be the catalyst for getting the two hourly semi-fast Paddington - Taunton/Exeter services up to hourly.
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