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Author Topic: Okehampton-Tavistock. Discussion on reopening and potential use as a diversionary route  (Read 268791 times)
trainbuff
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« Reply #510 on: February 04, 2018, 13:35:16 »

This bit caught my eye in the article (yes, I know its not the Okehampton route):

Quote
Mr Grayling said his department was reviewing the costs and business case for partial electrification and track alignment work between Totnes and Plymouth.

What's all that about then.... Roll Eyes

This suggests that DfT» (Department for Transport - about) are aware of the limitations of Bi-modes, i.e in climbing and fast running.

Totnes - Plymouth includes Rattery and Hemerdon banks but the wires would need to start at Newton Abbot to include Dainton, not to mention Whiteball.

A similar glimmer of sense appears to be in NR» (Network Rail - home page) now debating where the MML» (Midland Main Line. - about) wires should stop, as there are summits at Desborough, south of Market H and to the north at Kibworth. After Leicester the line is easily graded so Bi-modes would/might be satisfactory.

Why the steep Box and Middle Hill tunnels aren't wired ASAP defeats reason.

Exeter - Plymouth via Okehampton would be a terrific climb, 1/75 for 25 miles each way!

Get shovelling,

OTC

I can see that this might be a better post in the Pedant section but it is worth mentioning. Exeter to Plymouth via Okehampton is approximately 58 miles. It is not quite the 1 in 75 stated for 25 miles in each direction.

The steepest part of the line is 1 in 73 on the currently open section from St Budeaux to Bere Alston. Between Bere Alston and Lydford the gradient is 1 in 75 in many places, though this is not continuous. There are patches of 1 in 78 between Lydford and the summit at Sourton. All of these gradients are interspersed with easier climbs and level sections. These are merely the steepest gradient on that portion. The distance between St Budeaux and the Summit is about 25 miles.

The other portion of the route has gradients that are at most 1 in 76 or 1 in 77 between North Tawton and Sourton, though they do continue for much of this 10 miles. The gradients between Coleford and North Tawton are largely much less severe. The 10 miles between Exeter and Coleford (just after Yeoford) do not rise steeply, and in fact are part of the Tarka (Line from Barnstaple to Exeter) line. If you add up the mileage of the steepest climbs then it is 35, not 50 miles.

The general profile of the route is to climb up to Dartmoor the back towards sea level it is true. This does hide the other issue with the steep banks mentioned in the previous posts in South Devon. It is worth pointing out that South Devon has 3 of the 10 steepest banks in the country. They are:

3rd. Dainton, between 1 in 36 and 1 in 57

4th. Hemerdon, 1 in 42

7th. Rattery, between 1 in 45 and 1 in 90, though the first part of the climb is between 1 in 45 and 1 in 70

Whilst the curvature of the track is similar to the portion of the Okehampton route between St Budeaux and Lydford, the gradients are so much more severe on the current line, particularly with Dainton and Rattery. Either way round is a challenge for different reasons but it would be a generally easier climb now for diesel traction. I wont say electric because we will be lucky if we get the main line via Totnes electrified at all!!

Note that I see the current route as always being the main line. It serves the population centres of Devon

I do subscribe to the point of view though that the 'Northern Route' would be a good ADDITIONAL line. Normally used for local traffic and any freight but also with a capability for diversions. Maybe 2 trains per hour in each direction.
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« Reply #511 on: February 04, 2018, 21:21:21 »

Instructing GWR (Great Western Railway) to "draw up plans" was also effectively shown in the ITT (Invitation to Tender) for the 2012 franchise, in the form of a priced option.

This could still just be keeping the same old pot simmering on the back burner...

Paul



That's a fair observation but I think there is a momentum, locally and politically, behind Exeter - Okehampton that there wasn't back then or really at any time I can think of  since the station was restored and the Sunday service begun back in 97. 

It helps that Chris Grayling himself has made several positive comments about it, including the latest ones.  It also helps he wasn't moved in the reshuffle!
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onthecushions
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« Reply #512 on: February 04, 2018, 23:54:51 »


If one looks at Figure W4 of "Gradient Profiles", one will see that there is precious little relief from grades, although they do vary, like toothache.

OTC
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TonyK
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« Reply #513 on: February 05, 2018, 09:36:02 »

It helps that Chris Grayling himself has made several positive comments about it, including the latest ones.  It also helps he wasn't moved in the reshuffle!

I'm not sure whether that is because of his leadership qualities as a minister, his depth of knowledge of transport issues, or the PM's need for friends in the cabinet. It would be prudent, although not easy, for the local pressure groups to try to get the other parties signed up to this, in preparation for the almost inevitable. None of us would like to see this as a continuous stop-start when the political make-up changes, like Portishead or electrification into Bristol.

If one looks at Figure W4 of "Gradient Profiles", one will see that there is precious little relief from grades...

OTC

I have only travelled that way once, taking advantage of the Devon Rover one Sunday. The ride back from Okehampton seems to be freewheeling almost all the way to Yeoford. It seems steep for a long way.

...although they do vary, like toothache.

I don't suppose there's a Gradient Fairy?
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« Reply #514 on: February 05, 2018, 20:55:01 »

Anyway, it's good to know that a factual, informed and completely non Plymouthcentric opinion is being given to the All party parliamentary South West Rail Group by its chairman Gary Streeter MP (Member of Parliament) for South West Devon [basically the South Hams,Ivybridge and Plympton];

"I don't think trundling a train quite slowly inland is a back up plan,we are better off making the line we have as resillient as possible".

Good on yer Gary,it's votes that count! Grin


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onthecushions
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« Reply #515 on: February 05, 2018, 21:08:02 »


"I don't think trundling a train quite slowly inland is a back up plan,we are better off making the line we have as resillient as possible".


Call in King Canute then.

OTC
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« Reply #516 on: February 05, 2018, 21:19:10 »


"I don't think trundling a train quite slowly inland is a back up plan,we are better off making the line we have as resillient as possible".


Call in King Canute then.

OTC

I believe old Canute's Norse name was Cnut. Better not get too anagramatical when thinking of that and Streeter at the same time.
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onthecushions
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« Reply #517 on: February 05, 2018, 21:59:01 »


My Norwegian friend calls himself Knut, the other forms are Anglicisms, it seems.

Can't help the Tory MP (Member of Parliament), though.

OTC
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« Reply #518 on: February 05, 2018, 23:39:49 »

Welcome in Tawton, no doubt.
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« Reply #519 on: February 06, 2018, 05:16:33 »

Anyway, it's good to know that a factual, informed and completely non Plymouthcentric opinion is being given to the All party parliamentary South West Rail Group by its chairman Gary Streeter MP (Member of Parliament) for South West Devon [basically the South Hams,Ivybridge and Plympton];

"I don't think trundling a train quite slowly inland is a back up plan,we are better off making the line we have as resillient as possible".

Not a scientist, is he? For a system to be robust and fail-safe, you really need an independent provision that you can use as your backup.  I suppose you could fall back to having Plymouth cut off from rail for an extended period if something goes wrong with the line again, with lots of rail replacement buses and time critical journeys made by air ... except I think there's an issue with the latter from Plymouth these days?
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johnneyw
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« Reply #520 on: February 08, 2018, 18:08:57 »

From Devon Live, Chris Grayling instructs GWR (Great Western Railway) to provide regular Okehampton service.

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/daily-okehampton-exeter-trains-promised-1141277
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Pb_devon
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« Reply #521 on: February 09, 2018, 08:08:25 »

I think you should read the exact words in Mr G's letter. Many hurdles to jump yet!
Bear in mind that the infrastructure to Okehampton is NOT owned by NR» (Network Rail - home page), and a deal will have to be struck for a regular service can be implemented. Also a group of SW Tory MPs (Member of Parliament) have said they will vote against HS2 (The next High Speed line(s)) unless money comes to the SW, so some vote buying is required.
It will be great if it happens, but don't expect to be boarding a train at Okehampton for Exeter other than a summer Sunday anytime soon.


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« Reply #522 on: February 09, 2018, 08:36:58 »

I think you should read the exact words in Mr G's letter. Many hurdles to jump yet!

Indeed.  My understanding is that he is asking to be told how it could be done, without a commitment that it will be done.  A good step - but not (in my view) a promise to provide.

We went through this sort of process at TransWilts - along the lines of "do these five things and we'll consider it" and (again with extra hurdles to jump) it did form the basis of the 2014-2016 trial.  Far from guaranteed though - other earlier supported "let's see what we could do" exercises got us only to "very interesting possibility but we're not doing it" positions.
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sikejsudjek3
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« Reply #523 on: February 10, 2018, 08:34:48 »

From Devon Live, Chris Grayling instructs GWR (Great Western Railway) to provide regular Okehampton service.

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/daily-okehampton-exeter-trains-promised-1141277

Pardon my cynicism but when is Grayling going to 'instruct GWR to provide a regular service' Huh He hasn't so far managed it with the rest of the franchise !  Cheesy
 
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johnneyw
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« Reply #524 on: February 10, 2018, 12:01:09 »

From Devon Live, Chris Grayling instructs GWR (Great Western Railway) to provide regular Okehampton service.

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-news/daily-okehampton-exeter-trains-promised-1141277

Pardon my cynicism but when is Grayling going to 'instruct GWR to provide a regular service' Huh He hasn't so far managed it with the rest of the franchise !  Cheesy
 
Actually the article refers to Grayling instructing GWR to 'prepare plans' for a regular service to Okehampton. Maybe it's going to be used as the model to roll out for rest of GWR in some distant future! 😀
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