Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 06:55 29 Mar 2024
- Bus plunges off South Africa bridge, killing 45
- Easter getaway begins with flood alerts in place
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
29th Mar (1913)
Foundation of National Union or Railwaymen (*)

Train RunningCancelled
06:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington
07:00 Bedwyn to Newbury
07:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
07:49 Bedwyn to Newbury
08:13 Newbury to Bedwyn
08:46 Bedwyn to Newbury
09:54 Bedwyn to Newbury
10:22 Newbury to Bedwyn
11:29 Newbury to Bedwyn
11:57 Bedwyn to Newbury
12:52 Bedwyn to Newbury
Short Run
04:54 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:23 Hereford to London Paddington
05:33 Plymouth to London Paddington
05:55 Plymouth to London Paddington
06:00 Bedwyn to London Paddington
06:37 Plymouth to London Paddington
07:03 London Paddington to Paignton
07:38 Bristol Temple Meads to Penzance
07:40 Bristol Temple Meads to Westbury
08:35 Plymouth to London Paddington
10:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
Delayed
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance
05:03 Penzance to London Paddington
06:05 Penzance to London Paddington
07:10 Penzance to London Paddington
08:03 London Paddington to Penzance
08:15 Penzance to London Paddington
09:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
09:37 London Paddington to Paignton
10:04 London Paddington to Penzance
11:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 29, 2024, 06:57:38 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[82] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[76] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[74] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
[67] Return of the BRUTE?
[57] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[46] 2024 - Service update and amendment log, Swindon <-> Westbury...
 
News: the Great Western Coffee Shop ... keeping you up to date with travel around the South West
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
Author Topic: £1.6bn bailout for Transport for London. 14th May 2020  (Read 10996 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40691



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2020, 22:36:22 »

From The Guardian

Quote
The RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) trade union has accused the government of opening the door to privatising the tube after it was revealed that a review of Transport for London’s finances would consider “alternative operating models”.

According to the the terms of reference published on Monday, the review – imposed as part of a £1.6bn Covid-19 bailout package for London – will explore “whether there are any opportunities that alternative operating models could bring over the longer term, including consideration of structures and governance”.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40691



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2020, 20:43:18 »

From My  London

Quote
Transport for London (TfL» (Transport for London - about)) and the Government are in talks regarding funding for the future of the city's public transport system - and there could be some consequences that hit many Londoners in the pocket.

Sky News has learnt that the price of a new bailout for TfL could be an extension of London's congestion charge zone, plus the removal of remaining free travel entitlements for children and pensioners.

The coronavirus pandemic has left TfL in dire straits with lost revenues across all transport networks due to vast drops in passenger numbers.

Now Sky News is reporting that government ministers have told TfL, that it will have to "introduce the reforms if it is to secure a bailout package ahead of a funding deadline in the coming days."

The Mail goes further ...

Quote
The Government has agreed to extend its financial support of Transport for London (TfL) for two weeks while negotiations on a new bailout continue.

Ministers are demanding that London's congestion charge zone is extended and free travel entitlements for children and older people are downgraded in return for what would reportedly be a ?1 billion package.

Earlier today, Sadiq Khan was accused of 'playing games' after claiming that ministers are demanding he extends the congestion zone to get a ?1billion bailout.

The London mayor faced fury over suggestions that the government had made the move a condition of the latest extraordinary cash injection to keep Transport for London from grinding to a halt, amid fears that could happen as early as this weekend. 

After the latest agreement, Deputy mayor of London Heidi Alexander said there remain 'differences to resolve' between both sides, and expressed hope that 'cooler heads can prevail over the next 14 days'.

She told a meeting of TfL's finance committee: 'Neither the mayor or I can see how it would be right to charge people ?15 to drive a mile from Wandsworth to Clapham, or from Catford to Lewisham, from October next year if the congestion charge was to be extended out to the North and South Circular.

'That is in effect what the Government have said to us that they want.

'We can't see why we should take free travel away from under 18s or over 60s when lots of people in London are actually facing some genuine hardship over the coming months.'
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 20:56:10 by grahame » Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4356


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2020, 08:43:32 »

From My  London

Quote
Transport for London (TfL» (Transport for London - about)) and the Government are in talks regarding funding for the future of the city's public transport system - and there could be some consequences that hit many Londoners in the pocket.

Sky News has learnt that the price of a new bailout for TfL could be an extension of London's congestion charge zone, plus the removal of remaining free travel entitlements for children and pensioners.

The coronavirus pandemic has left TfL in dire straits with lost revenues across all transport networks due to vast drops in passenger numbers.

Now Sky News is reporting that government ministers have told TfL, that it will have to "introduce the reforms if it is to secure a bailout package ahead of a funding deadline in the coming days."

The Mail goes further ...

Quote
The Government has agreed to extend its financial support of Transport for London (TfL) for two weeks while negotiations on a new bailout continue.

Ministers are demanding that London's congestion charge zone is extended and free travel entitlements for children and older people are downgraded in return for what would reportedly be a ?1 billion package.

Earlier today, Sadiq Khan was accused of 'playing games' after claiming that ministers are demanding he extends the congestion zone to get a ?1billion bailout.

The London mayor faced fury over suggestions that the government had made the move a condition of the latest extraordinary cash injection to keep Transport for London from grinding to a halt, amid fears that could happen as early as this weekend. 

After the latest agreement, Deputy mayor of London Heidi Alexander said there remain 'differences to resolve' between both sides, and expressed hope that 'cooler heads can prevail over the next 14 days'.

She told a meeting of TfL's finance committee: 'Neither the mayor or I can see how it would be right to charge people ?15 to drive a mile from Wandsworth to Clapham, or from Catford to Lewisham, from October next year if the congestion charge was to be extended out to the North and South Circular.

'That is in effect what the Government have said to us that they want.

'We can't see why we should take free travel away from under 18s or over 60s when lots of people in London are actually facing some genuine hardship over the coming months.'

There is a bigger game afoot than keeping TfL running ..................

Its the postponed Mayor for London election due in May 2021, the Government want to pain the Mayor as the "Milk Snatcher" ** taking away the free travel for school children, ramping up the cost of taking kids to school by car and costs of doing business in London by increasing the congestion charge.  But at the same time painting HMG as the knights in white armour rescuing public transport in London.


** Milk snatcher https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/margaret-thatcher-regretted-snatching-milk-school-children-two-decades-a7500171.html
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
ellendune
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4452


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2020, 09:11:05 »

With a good campaign that could come back to bite the tory candidate if Sadiq Kahn manages to put the blame where it truly lies it would be seen as the intended policy of his tory opponent.
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2020, 14:24:05 »

I am not convinced that children should get free travel, they have to pay in most places other than London.
Neither in my view do they need driving to school. Walking, cycling, and use of paid for public transport are reasonable alternatives in most cases in London.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40691



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2020, 11:41:41 »

From Rail News

Quote
Time is running out for a decision on TfL» (Transport for London - about) funding, with the deadline now barely 48 hours away for the Government to decide what it will require the Mayor to do in return for further financial support. Passenger revenues appear to be in danger of slumping again in response to new Tier 2 restrictions.

In return for help, the Government wants TfL to move ahead with developing driverless trains, increasing fares and the congestion charge, and reducing travel concessions.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40691



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2020, 11:14:21 »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-54768723

Quote
Transport for London (TfL» (Transport for London - about)) has secured a ?1.8bn government bailout, to keep Tube and bus services running until March 2021.

The funding will ensure TfL can address its financial shortfall due to the loss of passengers as a result of Covid-19.

The exact amount of money involved is subject to passenger revenue in the coming months.

Mayor of London Sadiq Khan said the deal was "not ideal" but the government said it was "proof of our commitment".

Mr Khan said he fought hard against the "very worst" proposals, adding: "The only reason TfL needs government support is because its fares income has almost dried up since March."

Without a bailout the network would be forced to issue a Section 114 order, the equivalent of bankruptcy for a public company.

Discussions on longer-term sustainable funding continue, TfL said.

from further down the article ....



Quote
Both sides are declaring an element of victory in a negotiation that went down to the wire.

The mayor is pleased he has seen off an extension to the congestion charging zone but - and this is crucial - the government is pleased concessions for over 60s and under 18s will have to be paid for in the future by City Hall.

That could mean an increase in council tax. And don't forget fares will now be going up in January by inflation plus 1%.

and

Quote
"The mayor has pledged that national taxpayers will not pay for benefits for Londoners that they do not get themselves elsewhere in the country."


Hmmm ... there are those who might argue that better travel concessions for over 60s and under 18s should be universally available across the UK (United Kingdom) to help encourage the use of public transport - with one eye to climate issues, another to congestion and a third to rebuilding the use of public transport.  Far from limiting London, should the government be helping the provinces do the same?

Also noting the comment about fares ... I guess that there has been so much provaroaction on the fares review, Williams and the various ideas such as part time seasons and carnets that it's not too late to do anything in January except put the fares up more or less across the board?
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7747



View Profile
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2021, 06:42:42 »

......and another one, with some interesting strings attached!

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jun/01/tfl-cash-boost-made-dependent-on-driverless-tube-trains
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4256


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2021, 14:02:24 »

I was under the impression that on many underground lines the trains were already automatic and the driver was there only to take over in an emergency and to provide a reassuring presence to the public.
Logged

Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
Surrey 455
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1229


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2021, 17:32:25 »

I was under the impression that on many underground lines the trains were already automatic and the driver was there only to take over in an emergency and to provide a reassuring presence to the public.

I think that's just on the Victoria line.
Logged
Electric train
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4356


The future is 25000 Volts AC 750V DC has its place


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2021, 20:37:38 »

I was under the impression that on many underground lines the trains were already automatic and the driver was there only to take over in an emergency and to provide a reassuring presence to the public.

I think that's just on the Victoria line.

There are quite a few, Jubilee for certain when in deep tube, Central when in deep tube and I have feeling the Northern as well.  Not for getting Thameslink in the central core
Logged

Starship just experienced what we call a rapid unscheduled disassembly, or a RUD, during ascent,”
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40691



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2021, 13:30:15 »

From The Guardian

Quote
Work to introduce driverless tube trains has been demanded by ministers as part of an emergency funding agreement for Transport for London, with the government injecting just over £1bn to help the capital recover from the pandemic.

TfL» (Transport for London - about) will be obliged to produce business cases for driverless trains on the Piccadilly and Waterloo and City lines in return for the latest funding, which also comes with a requirement to make £300m of annual cuts and slash pensions.

Reactions:

Quote
Unions threatened strikes over the attacks on pensions, as well as the moves towards taking drivers from tube lines. The driver would be replaced by an onboard attendant under government proposals, following the model of operation of the Docklands Light Railway, part of the TfL network in east London.

The RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) general secretary, Mick Lynch, said it was “a disgraceful stitch-up of a deal and it will be resisted by our members whether it comes from Whitehall or City Hall through London-wide industrial action if necessary”. He said driverless trains were “unwanted, unaffordable and unsafe”.

Quote
[Sadiq] Khan [Mayor of London] said he had “seen off the worst of the conditions the government wanted to impose on London, which would not only have required huge cuts to transport services equivalent to cancelling one in five bus routes or closing a tube line, but would have hampered London’s economic recovery as well as the national recovery”.

He added: “I want to be honest with Londoners: this is not the deal we wanted.”


Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 7747



View Profile
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2021, 16:58:40 »

From The Guardian

Quote
Work to introduce driverless tube trains has been demanded by ministers as part of an emergency funding agreement for Transport for London, with the government injecting just over £1bn to help the capital recover from the pandemic.

TfL» (Transport for London - about) will be obliged to produce business cases for driverless trains on the Piccadilly and Waterloo and City lines in return for the latest funding, which also comes with a requirement to make £300m of annual cuts and slash pensions.

Reactions:

Quote
Unions threatened strikes over the attacks on pensions, as well as the moves towards taking drivers from tube lines. The driver would be replaced by an onboard attendant under government proposals, following the model of operation of the Docklands Light Railway, part of the TfL network in east London.

The RMT (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) general secretary, Mick Lynch, said it was “a disgraceful stitch-up of a deal and it will be resisted by our members whether it comes from Whitehall or City Hall through London-wide industrial action if necessary”. He said driverless trains were “unwanted, unaffordable and unsafe”.

Quote
[Sadiq] Khan [Mayor of London] said he had “seen off the worst of the conditions the government wanted to impose on London, which would not only have required huge cuts to transport services equivalent to cancelling one in five bus routes or closing a tube line, but would have hampered London’s economic recovery as well as the national recovery”.

He added: “I want to be honest with Londoners: this is not the deal we wanted.”




Most unlike the RMT to threaten industrial action!  Roll Eyes

Leaked TfL report has highlighted that converting the Waterloo and City Line to driverless operation would generate an incremental benefit of £9.40 for every £1 spent.
Logged
IndustryInsider
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 10096


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2021, 17:56:53 »

Interesting figure, but the Waterloo & City is rather unique in terms of its operation.  Are there figures for any of the more traditional tube lines?
Logged

To view my GWML (Great Western Main Line) Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/
Ralph Ayres
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 336


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2021, 22:41:16 »

Business cases do sometimes show that something is not cost-effective, and even if this one does prove positive the next stage will be for the government to explain where the initial funding for the necessary technology, infrastructure etc will come from before any savings are made, which could prove "interesting".  The closure of the entire Metropolitan line several times lately because of the lack of a small number of staff in the control room is incidentally a reminder that it's harder than it might seem to remove reliance on humans completely.
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page