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  • TWSW; BRI Mayoral team; ONLINE: May 29, 2020
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Author Topic: 29.5.20 Marvin Rees's Mayor of Bristol team talks to/with TravelWatch SouthWest  (Read 2525 times)
grahame
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« on: May 23, 2020, 09:20:32 am »

Next Friday's TravelWatch SouthWest (TWSW) online "fireside chat" features special guests from Marvin Rees's team - perhaps the mayor himself.  At these Friday afternoon chats, TravelWatch SouthWest hosts discussions around an aspect of Transport across the South West. 

http://travelwatchsouthwest.org/about-us/

Quote
TWSW, which is a social enterprise company, acts as an advocate for passengers to lobby for the improvement of public transport in the region and works closely with local authorities, business organisations, partnerships and other stakeholder groups – with the dissolution of the former Rail Passengers Committee for Western England in July 2005, TWSW is the representative body for public transport users throughout the South West of England.

As a director of TravelWatch SouthWest, I would encourage all groups and independent campaigners with a transport interesting across the South West (definition of that on the web site) and in services in neighbouring / overlapping areas) to join / get in touch.  Particularly at current times, TWSW is one of the elements that can help keep people informed and co-ordinated ... anyone with an interest welcome to listen on Friday afternoons and you're pretty certain to learn something of interest and pick up some new thoughts.

I will post an EventBrite signup early next week ... it's a free event - we just need to register / confirm attendees.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 05:43:56 pm by grahame » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2020, 05:46:47 pm »

I will post an EventBrite signup early next week ... it's a free event - we just need to register / confirm attendees.

Please sign up via:
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/web-4-planning-for-restart-taking-the-opportunity-for-lasting-change-tickets-107068843794

About this Event

TWSW is inviting you to session 4/8 scheduled Zoom meetings.

In this week’s webinar we focus on finding and delivering in-city solutions to the integral problems with current connectivity. We continue agenda building and aligning Users’ needs with Government Minister Grant Shapps MP’s declared aspirations.

How can this be best delivered for the region? Mayor Marvin Rees's and team will be kicking off conversation through Bristol's eyes.

TWSW encourage you to submit questions in advance to meetings@travelwatchsouthwest.org for discussion on the day ahead of the webinar, e.g.
1.   Who may have poorer connectivity through this vision
2.   Can this be mitigated, how and by whom, with what resource (skill, design, fund, participation?) e.g. should cars be planned for? If so how?
3.   Where must the a) direction and b) leadership come from?
4.   Is this the moment to act? Could it be that one of the great causes of inertia is reluctance to take unpopular steps, and therefore the time to do it is when whatever offer given is better than the experience of now. Containment v. Freedom
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2020, 11:17:17 pm »

Difficult time for the non-retired and un-furloughed.
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« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2020, 06:09:19 am »

Difficult time for the non-retired and un-furloughed.


Please sign up via:
https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/web-4-planning-for-restart-taking-the-opportunity-for-lasting-change-tickets-107068843794

About this Event

TWSW is inviting you to session 4/8 scheduled Zoom meetings.

In this week’s webinar we focus on finding and delivering in-city solutions to the integral problems with current connectivity. We continue agenda building and aligning Users’ needs with Government Minister Grant Shapps MP’s declared aspirations.

How can this be best delivered for the region? Mayor Marvin Rees's and team will be kicking off conversation through Bristol's eyes.

[etc]

Yes - 4 p.m. on Friday afternoon is far from ideal.  But I have to ask "what would be better, then?"

I'm on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest and very much part of the group that has fought the problem of knowing which day of the week and time we should meet.  There is no ideal - whenever we choose, it's difficult for some metric or others.  Take it to weekend, and you loose a proportion of the industry managers and civil servants. Take it to a weekday and you loose a proportion of the "otherwise employed".

The TWSW online meetings are a series of eight - a finite set, planned to cover the current period of shutdown, and timed with the current situation very much in mind. We have a board meeting next month and forward planning will be very much on the agenda.

Please - if you can make it this afternoon, do so.  I have intentionally quoted the sign up link in the top of this post.

If you can't make it, sorry, can't make it work for everyone. I'll be making notes and will be following up with a report overnight.
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2020, 09:57:03 pm »

Will the Vandellas be appearing too?
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grahame
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2020, 11:03:27 am »

Notes from yesterday afternoon ...

Quote
In this week’s webinar we focus on finding and delivering in-city solutions to the integral problems with current connectivity. We continue agenda building and aligning Users’ needs with Government Minister Grant Shapps MP’s declared aspirations.
Strava
How can this be best delivered for the region? Mayor Marvin Rees's team will be kicking off conversation through Bristol's eyes.

TWSW encourage you to submit questions in advance to meetings@travelwatchsouthwest.org for discussion on the day ahead of the webinar, e.g.
1.   Who may have poorer connectivity through this vision
2.   Can this be mitigated, how and by whom, with what resource (skill, design, fund, participation?) e.g. should cars be planned for? If so how?
3.   Where must the a) direction and b) leadership come from?
4.   Is this the moment to act? Could it be that one of the great causes of inertia is reluctance to take unpopular steps, and therefore the time to do it is when whatever offer given is better than the experience of now. Containment v. Freedom

Chris Irwin ...

Look at the South West, but taking lessons from elsewhere.  CI has been in UK Transport, health, environment meetings this week and Covid is bringing forward plans.  Take a look at Ghent - sliced like a cake with ring for private cars around the outside. Been talking about if for a very long time but when a coalition of all parties came in they pushed it through. Initial objections from businesses - worries turned out to be unfounded and it has thrived.

Bristol - headlines on restart with big look to active transport.   Worry that only 16% are happy to use public transport once it restarts though [[ Thought from me - sounds awful, but what proportion of people would not be "seen dead" on public transport even before the shutdown; far too many people would not lower themselves to the bus, which is for poor people ]]

Councillor Kye Dudd - Bristol City Council, Transport Portfolio.

Short + Medium + longterm plans
Increase bus priority leading toward 10 year mass transit
Lots of planning already done so stuff can be more speedily implemented
Accelerating next 2 years of pedestrians plan - should be able to put temporary orders in place in 3 weeks
Then more permanent at end of August.

Bristol Bridge is key
Extinction Rebellion provided an excellent test of closure of the bridge

Pavement Widening & Pedestianisation
Response overall positive and increased footfall expected; knee-jerk worries understandable
Looking later at traffic free areas
Noting £250m Govt fund

9% use of public transport at present (load compared to normal)
Council resisting calls to take out bus lanes and let cars take them over because fewer buses and people asked to go by car.

James Harkins

Concern at PM2.5 micro-particles from cars and buses - account for 80,000 UK deaths per annum.
30% come from wood burners / 70% from traffic on traffic corridors.
(Correction of misinformation from last week)

David Redgewell

Safety concern for disabled on wider pavements / faster cycles.
Also to ensure that widened pavement are accessible and not rushed through just for the able bodied

Claire Walters

What is the rationale / scientific data behind distancing as high as 2 metres?
Everyone asked has hedged their answers in saying 2 metres is safe but not answering why that high
Health England - a "precaution". 
Suggestion is that 1 metre is fine [[with masks??]] and key importance is hand wash - WHO

Phillip Dredge

Ivybridge - concern at major intersection work taking out a roundabout to increase walk and cycle flows.
Will people carry on cycling in the winter and will the changes, perhaps, be expensive work for just a fad.

Cate Mack / Chris Irwin discussion

Seeking shared outcomes in the interest of air quality
Should not lose sight of outcome targets and remember the green transport hierarchy
[[ Personal understanding - translate the features into current benefits for people ]]

Economics of cars with petrol cheap at present.  And the benefit of cars in helping people's mental health
Remember that even in the "rich" city of Bath, 28% have no car.  Even the PM seems to have forgotten them
Good to see Bath Council looking at this

Kye Dunn

Traffic levels in Bristol now back up to 60%
Requests ARE coming in for area interventions - tend to be very specific when an area approach is needed
but please keep these ideas coming in

Gesella

Would love the bus ... no no practical way in my village but the car.
No buses at all ... 2 miles walk to next village, which has buses 2 days a walk.
Need decent foot and cycle ways to make that walk safe - though would people want to with the shopping?

Claire Walters

Need for rural buses totally know but lower passenger numbers have resulted in urban concentration

Glen Burrows

Everyone needs to work together to get things joined up.
Example of new works at Bridgwater Station when a normal sized bus cannot turn
It seems that GWR and bus companies didn't talk / work things out with each other before the work was done.
"Need public control". Need joined up thinking.

Cate

Rural Structure needed.   Benefit is outbound as well as inbound.
Cate is on management Cttee of Cotswold AONB; brief is to bring in people by all modes, but no practical buses.
Bus companies are not paid for the social benefit

Kye

Buses are seen as a necessity not a benefit

Sue Stevens

Plan at an early point
Buses to hubs
Idea seems to be electric cars (but they are not the solution)
Do we need an uplift in bus quality?
Has anyone asked "what do you want" in your bus
[Mention of some of the re-arranged seating that is popular - I did not note speaker]

Andrew Ardley

Better comfort on buses certainly helps

And so the session concluded. I will follow up with chat notes shortly
« Last Edit: May 30, 2020, 01:55:16 pm by Red Squirrel » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2020, 11:34:58 am »

People are learning how to use the "backchat" ... I have filtered this and tidied it up a little with an objective of keeping the key points / views but removing reports of microphone problems, etc  Cheesy

16:06:27    From  Graham Ellis : How many would have used public transport BEFORE though?

16:06:32    From  David Redgewell : The important of disabled access in work to pavements widening and cycle routes in high street s and city centre s and access  to taxi and buses and disabled people having to use car in Cities like  Bristol and Bath city centre s  the same applies in Gloucester Cheltenham and Stroud

16:07:41    From  Stuart Phelps : Demographic impact. Do we know the demographic impact of the Ghent changes?
Waltham Forest changes have displaced working class with middle class occupants. The new shops that opened in Waltham Forest are serving a much more affluent population than the population that lived there before. The displaced population from Waltham Forest seem to have ended up in significantly more deprived .
16:10:11    From  Bryony Chetwode : Stuart Phelps: I think you raise a very importaout point - we must remain vigilant for unintended consequences.

16:14:27    From  Tim Weekes - FoSBR : No mention of Gloucester Rd - heavy footfall, narrow pavements
16:15:35    From  Graham Parkhurst : So an important point made there by Kye about bus lanes that would be generally relevant: we may be emergency planning, but it is important not to reverse important past gains and to avoid over-reaction.

16:16:27    From  Robert Williams : There are some issues where short notice cycle lanes can be implemented quickly, but bus lanes need extensive consultation
16:17:49    From  Robert Williams : There are concerns about social distancing at bus stops too, particularly if shops have queues outside

16:17:56    From  Jasper Selwyn : What happened to the Bristol tram scheme?  In all the British cities that have trams (and all over Europe) they are a real success.   Why is the DfT so reluctant to support new tram schemes?  Jasper

16:19:58    From  Mike Lambden : Observation on Ghent video.
None of the bikes are like those used in UK.
No one wearing safety gear as we would in UK
Trams appear to move far faster than allowed in UK on road running sections.
It is also very flat compared to most UK cities and towns.

16:21:23    From  James Harkins : Metrolink is carrying four times the number of passengers
16:22:36    From  Robert Williams : My hope is that a future easement of lockdown will reduce the distance from 2m to 1m

16:25:01    From  Mike Reddaway : Some years ago Ashford in Kent turned a dual carriageway and roundabout into shared space which works very well for pedestrians and cars when I saw it.
16:25:29    From  Philip Sankey : Walking and cycling may not suit an older demographic who need to ride (car or bus etc) for longer journeys 
16:26:35    From  Ian Harrison : Given that transport is a derived demand, aren't the outcomes we are seeking a healthy community and a productive economy?
16:27:23    From  James Harkins : Switzerland and Germany have more cars per head but a higher use of public transportGhent has the right idea, towns and cities belong to people and not cars etc, they are our servants!
16:27:36    From  Bryony Chetwode : If we make it easier to do the "right thing" (active travel) instead of driving, we must sure everyone is able to do this.

16:27:37    From  Glen Burrows : Public safety also important. Not many people are knocked down and killed/injured by bikes

16:27:57    From  Gesella : Around Dorking where I originate from and more recently Bridport where I am now the cycle paths are rarely used along the main highways as the majority of cyclists are either club based, competition riders learning a route or serious 'pleasure' cyclists; only families with young children and the teenagers are on them and the later are inclined to jump on and off without checking for traffic usually.

16:28:30    From  David Redgewell : we could use the heritage railway lines for  public transport in the south west ie west Somerset railway  taunton minehead route  Exeter to Okehampton  paignton kingswear for Dartmouth
16:29:12    From  David Redgewell : Bodmin parkway  Bodmin town  swanage to wareham 
16:29:45    From  David Redgewell : carry a few more passengers then a single decker bus

16:32:54    From  Gesella : All tis sounds wonderful but how can the deeper rural community get to the towns and cities without the use of a car?  There are no footpaths to walk on, permissive paths are usually ankle deep in mud Autumn to Spring and no buses run commercially as they almost always run as a loss.
16:36:06    From  Glen Burrows : The problem is surely "commercially" . You can't provide vital services on a commercial basis
16:34:52    From  Claire Walters : Shameless plug for our work on rural buses: https://bususers.org/england/reversing-rural-bus-decline/
16:37:41    From  Graham Ellis : Much is there - needs marketing so people know and connections that work.

16:37:09    From  James Harkins : Claire the park and rides in Nottingham are full, the problem there is not enough tramlines built yet!
16:38:20    From  Claire Walters : Trams take a long time and sometimes go in the wrong places (see Edinburgh). Short-term, buses of some description are usually the easiest most cost-effective answer
Walking, cycling and PT make it possible to get regular daily exercise into our daily life.
The costs of obesity, diabetes and cardiovascular illness, as well as mental health, are having a terrible cost to the NHS, the economy and peoples wellbeing.

16:39:18    From  Dick Daniel : The UK have a real issue with health issues that are affected by lack of exercise.
Walking, cycling and PT make it possible to get regular daily exercise into our daily life.
The costs of obesity, diabetes and cardiovascular illness, as well as mental health, are having a terrible cost to the NHS, the economy and peoples wellbeing.

16:39:20    From  David Redgewell : department for transport is now fund mainly  on Monday to Friday service  prority 7am to 7pm no weekend specification for week end s service s
16:39:31    From  Graham Parkhurst : Perhaps important to respond to this very wide-reaching consultation into future regulatory policy: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/future-of-transport-regulatory-review-call-for-evidence-on-micromobility-vehicles-flexible-bus-services-and-mobility-as-a-service

16:39:47    From  James Harkins : Claire, yes our system of planning cause this, the people of Edinburgh no longer agree with statement as they are demanding more routes to eventually go where they want to go
16:39:52    From  Mike Reddaway : I grew up in the country and dear old dad still lives there. He argues that buses are useless for his trip to doctor, newsagent or supermarket. Long distance he says by the time he's driven 2 miles to bus stop why not do the full 45 minutes into Exeter. Plenty of people in the country use public transport but they have to carefully plan.
16:40:11    From  David Redgewell : department of transport paying for  all bus and trains services now no private sector money
16:41:04    From  James Harkins : Claire, disagree that buses are cost effective as they don't pay for the health harm done (NEE) and they are a failed mode in many cases
16:41:11    From  Sue Stevens : Perhaps the planning soukd begin at an earlier point
16:41:29    From  Claire Walters : In what sense?
16:41:47    From  James Harkins : Which question?
16:42:01    From  Claire Walters : Either!
16:43:04    From  James Harkins : ok Buses ruled the road in the sixties but their customers voted with their feet or cars. have a read of the Defra report
16:43:34    From  Claire Walters : Do you have a link please? James:

16:44:16    From  David Redgewell : week end  bus service  to south Bristol  not  funded  by the department for transport we need  to specify  bus service  via locial authorities  such as weca mayoral transport authority  Somerset county council ect covid 19 bus grant 

16:44:55    From  Sue Stevens : Should this joined up thinking begin at an earlier stage in a project. For example, could there be cooperation between bus companies and GWR to have bus hubs at the proposed new rail stations at Wellington and Cullompton? Perhaps small hopper buses could take passengers in rural to the hub for change for a bus into city

16:45:17    From  Nick Thwaites : so do the people who live in the rural area not have to pay for the transport in cities if the don't get any service

16:45:21    From  Verona : My concern is that unless an attractive public transport is provided, there is little chance of persuading people to switch from private car. At present, in most cases it is actually more convenient and CHEAPER to use the car! Bob
16:46:05    From  James Harkins : This issue was addressed by the Edwardians, low fares on the trams and buses and encouraged hop on hop off
16:47:01    From  Andy Burkitt - SERA SW : Agree James - read the early history of buses in/around London

16:47:46    From  Claire Walters : Nobody askes communities what they need!
16:47:58    From  Jacqueline Walkden : Isn't the point of access and getting people out of the cars the same in principle for towns and rural areas ie people need to have most of their basic needs within an area which can be reached by active or public transport. Paris is talking about a 15=20 minute community, where everything is within 15-20 mins walking?

16:48:30    From  Bryony Chetwode : So just bring back to COVID - should we also be engaging from the non-transport angle i.e. time use and accepting time flexibility come at the price of environment.
16:48:33    From  Glen Burrows : The car was originally sold as a sign of upward social mobility. That idea still lingers

16:48:45    From  James Harkins : Andy, The busman wanted it all, in the sixties he finally managed to see off the trams, seventies other electric traction, the trolley bus and now as a mass carrier is a failed mode

16:49:00    From  Dick Daniel : The only PT that gets people out of car is trams.
16:49:12    From  Claire Walters : Lets also not forget the people who can't walk or cycle. They're a minority but if their needs are not met, there is a higher cost to addressing the social isolation of thoseleft behind.

16:49:40    From  Bryony Chetwode : It is not realistic to think a single mode will provide door to door.
16:49:41    From  Mike Reddaway : The whole region / country whatever area you say needs an overall plan for public transport to make seamless journeys to attact people to use it.
16:49:47    From  James Harkins : Trams last year carried 478 million passengers greater than the bottom TOC
16:50:02    From  David Redgewell : we  redesignin buses and trains  with  crovid19 look at spaces and screens on vehicles
16:50:02    From  Dick Daniel : The only PT that gets people out of car is trams.
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« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2020, 10:31:04 pm »

Thanks all.

For the benefit of anyone engaging in the Ghent conversation, one of the key differences between Belgian cities and UK ones is that the dense city cores tend to include large numbers of primary and secondary schools, plus universities, technical institutes, music academies, swimming pools etc. They are also generally very flat. This means that most people can get around quite happily 95% of the time by foot or bike in a compact urban core. It also means that young people don't need to be ferried around - you'll see 8 or 9 year old kids cycling to school on their own, even 5 years olds cycling to primary school alongside their parents. As you'd expect, busses and trains are very cheap, although not always to the standard or frequency we would expect.

Anyway, the Belgians are by no means car-phobic, company cars are untaxed and a standard perk, if you need to drive, for example to an out of town factory or office park, well then it's a short hop out to the main road. However, they are vicious about parking, public car parks are horribly expensive - park in the wrong place and you'll be heavily fined and towed.
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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2020, 10:54:10 pm »

...They are also generally very flat...

This is something that is raised from time to time as an objection to investing in cycling infrastructure. Whilst it may have had some validity back in the days when the average bicycle weighed ¾ of a ton an relied on (at best) a 3-speed Sturmey-Archer to get it up a moderate incline, a decent modern bicycle may weight under 10Kg and its 11-speed derailleur will make light work of all but the steepest hill. It also ignores the fact that many of those who for one reason or another don't have the strength to pedal up hills can use electrically-assisted cycles.

Hills generally aren't that big a deal.
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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2020, 10:27:56 am »

Ghent might be flat but a lot of places aren't, especially when you get away from the Northern European Plain. Also, I saw a boy of about 9 cycling on his own in Tytherington yesterday. With a backpack, no helmet or hi-viz (oh how shocking(!)), looked as if he'd been sent out to get a loaf of bread and a pint of milk. Or maybe the backpack contained a football and he was going round to a mate for a kickabout. I saw him just by the Grovesend quarry line bridge, but he wasn't hammering stone or playing trains!
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« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2020, 11:50:09 am »

I think I may have seen him too:

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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2020, 12:33:30 pm »

He's aged quickly. That's what cycling up those hills does to you!
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« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2020, 05:43:29 pm »

...They are also generally very flat...

This is something that is raised from time to time as an objection to investing in cycling infrastructure. Whilst it may have had some validity back in the days when the average bicycle weighed ¾ of a ton an relied on (at best) a 3-speed Sturmey-Archer to get it up a moderate incline, a decent modern bicycle may weight under 10Kg and its 11-speed derailleur will make light work of all but the steepest hill. It also ignores the fact that many of those who for one reason or another don't have the strength to pedal up hills can use electrically-assisted cycles.

Hills generally aren't that big a deal.

Actually, my point was more that hilly geography make a Ghent-style segmentation strategy more difficult. But now you mention it, they do make cycling for small children a lot more challenging.
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« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2020, 06:15:22 pm »

Who actually wants to listen to this useless idiot, full of false promises.
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« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2020, 06:42:21 pm »

Who actually wants to listen to this useless idiot, full of false promises.
I suppose as an elected politician it's just possible that some members of the public might have some element of agreement with his views. And even if you don't, then it might also be considered worthwhile listening given that he undoubtedly has influence and can implement changes that will affect you (assuming you are in his geographical area of control). 
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This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

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