Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum
GWR advice during Coronavirus
Coffee Shop during Coronavirus
Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 22/07/2020 - Melksham Rail User Group CANX
12/08/2020 - Comm. Rail & Recovery ONLINE
24/08/2020 - Challenge of Decarb. - ONLINE
16/09/2020 - Melksham Rail User Group
Random Image
Train Running Polls Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail news GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
July 16, 2020, 02:00:16 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[181] DfT sifts 60 new rail plans
[107] TV shows that weren't quite what I expected [DotD 21.04.20]
[63] First trip by train in four months
[56] Heritage Railway Association
[51] HS2 - Government proposals, alternative routes and general dis...
[41] Isle of Wight futures.
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: New bid to reopen St Anne’s Park Station  (Read 623 times)
Noggin
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 396


View Profile
« on: May 27, 2020, 10:13:44 pm »

Apologies if elsewhere

https://www.bristol247.com/news-and-features/news/new-bid-to-reopen-st-annes-park-station/
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 29959



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2020, 05:23:24 am »


Nope, new thread it is  Grin - thank you.

Quote
A railway station that has out of use for 50 years could be reopened under proposals being put forward by the MP for Bristol East.

Kerry McCarthy, along with Labour councillor Tim Rippington, has formally submitted a bid to restore St Anne’s Park Station, and says the move has the potential to “transform travel in the area”, reduce gridlock and open access to other parts of the city.

The station near Wick Road was first opened on May 23 1898 and its closure in 1970 left the constituency of Bristol East with no train stations and the communities of Brislington and St Anne’s poorly served by public transport.

Provided there's sufficient service to where people want to go, this could make sense.  Contrast the success of stations on underground and metro lines with frequent services versus the likes of Dunston, Bordesley and Ardwick.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
Celestial
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 601


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2020, 10:40:11 am »

I would have thought Saltford has a much better case between Bristol and Bath, yet it seems to be no further forward having been mooted for ages.  (Yes, I know it shouldn't be either/or, but if the more compelling proposition can't get any traction, what chance the more speculative proposal?)
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 29959



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2020, 10:47:32 am »

I would have thought Saltford has a much better case between Bristol and Bath, yet it seems to be no further forward having been mooted for ages.  (Yes, I know it shouldn't be either/or, but if the more compelling proposition can't get any traction, what chance the more speculative proposal?)

Both gives you the better business case as you get farebox income from 2 lots of passengers on the same trains but
Either/or may be the outcome if it comes down to budget or the need to intersperse express trains and stoppers up to capacity
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 746


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2020, 10:49:35 am »

The reeaspn why St Annes Park and Saltford closed, whilst Keynsham and Oldfield Park didn't, had a lot to do with location, both being at the bottom of steep hills whilst frequent bus services to Bristol (and Bath in the case of Saltford) were avilable without the need to walk up those hills.

Whilst travelling habits might have changed, the topography has not.

Furthermore, given the location of St Annes Park station (and there wouldn't be anywhere else to put it given a tunnel on one side and a deep cutting on the other) I can't think of anywhere you could sensibly put a car park.
Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2865


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2020, 10:52:48 am »

In the case of Saltford, there have been comments from (I can't remember if GWR or NR) that a new station would probably not be sited on the old location on Brassmill Lane but nearer to the High St.
Logged

Tuesday had come down through Dundrum and Foster Avenue, brine-fresh from sea-travel, a corn-yellow sun-drench that called forth the bees at an incustomary hour to their bumbling.
rogerw
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 951



View Profile
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2020, 11:58:33 am »

In the case of Saltford, there have been comments from (I can't remember if GWR or NR) that a new station would probably not be sited on the old location on Brassmill Lane but nearer to the High St.
Not that easy. The High Street is on top of Saltford tunnel and the previous station was at the only location where a level access could be achieved. Move it any further towards the tunnel and you are into the cutting and substantial earthworks, even if access could be achieved without acquiring property
Logged

I like to travel.  It lets me feel I'm getting somewhere.
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3695


There are some who call me... Tim


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2020, 06:30:25 pm »

I would have thought Saltford has a much better case between Bristol and Bath, yet it seems to be no further forward having been mooted for ages.  (Yes, I know it shouldn't be either/or, but if the more compelling proposition can't get any traction, what chance the more speculative proposal?)

The reeaspn why St Annes Park and Saltford closed, whilst Keynsham and Oldfield Park didn't, had a lot to do with location, both being at the bottom of steep hills whilst frequent bus services to Bristol (and Bath in the case of Saltford) were avilable without the need to walk up those hills.

Whilst travelling habits might have changed, the topography has not.

Furthermore, given the location of St Annes Park station (and there wouldn't be anywhere else to put it given a tunnel on one side and a deep cutting on the other) I can't think of anywhere you could sensibly put a car park.

St Anne's Park and Saltford closed on the same day, Monday 5th Jan 1970. The Midland line through Mangotsfield had been scheduled for closure on the preceding Saturday (a landslip brought this forward by a week). To me that suggests that the closures had more to do with 'rationalisation' than any particular problem with the location of the stations.

Is there any need for a car park at St Anne's Park? It would be a suburban station. Montpelier, Redland and Stapleton Road get by very well without. Saltford would probably serve a wider catchment; locals may well be happy to walk down the hill but people from the surrounding villages would probably wish to cycle or drive. Luckily, there's plenty of room for parking at the original station site.
Logged
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 746


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2020, 07:58:58 pm »


St Anne's Park and Saltford closed on the same day, Monday 5th Jan 1970. The Midland line through Mangotsfield had been scheduled for closure on the preceding Saturday (a landslip brought this forward by a week). To me that suggests that the closures had more to do with 'rationalisation' than any particular problem with the location of the stations.

Is there any need for a car park at St Anne's Park? It would be a suburban station. Montpelier, Redland and Stapleton Road get by very well without. Saltford would probably serve a wider catchment; locals may well be happy to walk down the hill but people from the surrounding villages would probably wish to cycle or drive. Luckily, there's plenty of room for parking at the original station site.

Neither station was listed for closure in the Beeching Report (available online if anyone  wants to look), but the fact that they succumbed suggests a lack of revenue and/or bums on seats. Other than a minor speeding up of stopping trains between Bristol and Bath, which back then wouldn't have been the major issue it is today, I'm not sure how much operational benefit came from it.

It is a valid comparison to make to stations on the Severn Beach line, but to me the area doesn't "feel" the same. There are no houses to speak of down in the dip by the bridge, and many of those close by are quite large and low density. For the station to prosper it would need to attract people from the (ex?) council estate at St Annes and the Wick Road/ Langton Court Road areas. And all of them would be quite strenuosly uphill from the station, which is why I mentioned a car park.

I might be wrong I accept, but I suspect that few people in the area who use public transport is going to find taking the train to Tempe Meads preferable to using the frequent bus services that currently run past their front doors in many cases. That wouldn't apply so much for travel to Keynsham or Bath of course, but I also wonder what potential market there is for those journeys.

Logged
Bmblbzzz
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2865


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2020, 11:03:12 pm »

I agree with Red Squirrel on the car parking. Though it's probably also true that current bus users wouldn't switch to the train for journeys to central Bristol, or even to Bath, but equally car users aren't going to drive half a mile or a mile to wait for a train when another mile would take them to the centre of the city.

One potential market for this station might be students at St Brendan's college, which, despite being right at the end of the the built-up area, attracts pupils from all over Bristol, Bath and even beyond.
Logged

Tuesday had come down through Dundrum and Foster Avenue, brine-fresh from sea-travel, a corn-yellow sun-drench that called forth the bees at an incustomary hour to their bumbling.
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 746


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2020, 11:26:30 pm »

One potential market for this station might be students at St Brendan's college, which, despite being right at the end of the the built-up area, attracts pupils from all over Bristol, Bath and even beyond.

Given the locations of the stations and the current bus services in the area, Keynsham would actually be better placed to take this traffic. There are regular buses from Keynsham church (less than 5 minutes walk from the station) to St Brendans, but at least one change in Brislington would be needed from St Annes Park
Logged
johnneyw
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1428


Still want to be a train driver when I grow up


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2020, 12:16:43 am »

Then again, uptake on new stations always seems to hugely exceed expectations, an uncomfortable truth for the "innovative bus based solutions" brigade. St Anne's may prove an expensive folly, or confirm the Severn Beach Line popularity trend. Worth a punt given current odds?
Logged
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3695


There are some who call me... Tim


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2020, 12:23:23 am »


Neither station was listed for closure in the Beeching Report...


There were two Beeching Reports - The Reshaping of British Railways and The Development of the Major Railway Trunk Routes. The latter report probably had more impact on local stations on major routes:

Quote
For the purpose of considering the effect of the future passenger traffic demand on the railway trunk system we have accepted the unavoidable conclusion that stopping services on trunk routes will decline. Most of them are grossly under-used and hopelessly uneconomic now, and are likely to become more so in future because of road improvement and further growth in car ownership. We have, therefore, restricted our consideration to intercity passenger movements.
Source: The Development of the Major Railway Trunk Routes.

Of course the Beeching Reports only give part of the story. To my mind a much better appraisal of the mindset that kept closing railways and stations right through to the 1980s can be found in Holding the Line, by Richard Faulkner and Chris Austin...
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 29959



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2020, 05:53:44 am »

Noting comment up-thread along the lines "but who's going to get this train for the short trip into Temple Meads".  Good question - but that's far from the only traffic.   I am minded of trips on the Severn Beach lines, where passengers between intermediate stations have been a significant part of the loading - outbound train with lots of people getting on at Lawrence Hill and Stapleton Road, and big changeovers (off and on) at Montpelier and Redland ...

St. Anne's would be served by ... what trains?  Inbound MetroWest trains from Westbury (or other turn backs at or beyond Bath Spa) but then where would they go and what stations would they serve beyond Temple Meads?   Look not only to flows from St Annes to Temple Meads, but also at flows to Clifton Down, to Filton Abbey Wood, to Ashton Gate and a plethora of other potentially diirect service stations. And look too to interchange traffic to Cheltenham Spa, to Newport and Cardiff, to Taunton and Exeter - such passengers would surely be more tempted onto the train if they could walk to St Annes and have an easy change at Temple Meads rather than make an intermodal change.   But all of this depends on a metro frequency service.
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 3695


There are some who call me... Tim


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2020, 09:28:55 am »

Exactly
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page