Lynton and Barnstaple Railway appeal: Bratton Fleming station back on the market

[whole diary]

[Umberleigh]

I fully support the L&B with its current proposal to reopen Wistlandpound back to Lynton with a P&R^▸ (Park and Ride) at Blackmoor Gate and have made financial donations in the past. But its been 14 long years since the railway was extended to its present one mile of running line and I have to question if throwing money at the section South of Wistlandpound is a good idea given the huge costs involved.

Its fantastic that the Chelfham viaduct is preserved, but I just feel that all efforts should be focused on what is being planned for now rather than the romance of buying stations that will cost tens of millions of pounds to reach at some distant point in the future

[grahame]

It is so hard to know how far ahead to safeguard - who would have expected the Bluebell to reach all the way to East Grinstead, or the West Welsh Highland to reach all the way to Caernarvon.  Who knows when / if the line from Lynton will reach Barnstaple itself - or even suggest it extends over a re-instated standard gauge route to the Tarka^▸ (Line from Barnstaple to Exeter) Line on its way from Exeter to Bideford.

Exit to correct "West" to "Welsh"

[rogerw]

Don't you mean Welsh Highland, Grahame. You've got your countries meddled 

[grahame]

Don't you mean Welsh Highland, Grahame. You've got your countries meddled 

Fixed. Thank you.

[TonyK]

Exit to correct "West" to "Welsh"

Edit to correct "exit" to "edit"?

(Sorry  )

[Red Squirrel]

It is so hard to know how far ahead to safeguard - who would have expected the Bluebell to reach all the way to East Grinstead, or the West Welsh Highland to reach all the way to Caernarvon.  Who knows when / if the line from Lynton will reach Barnstaple itself - or even suggest it extends over a re-instated standard gauge route to the Tarka^▸ (Line from Barnstaple to Exeter) Line on its way from Exeter to Bideford.

Exit to correct "West" to "Welsh"

I don't think it's at all hard to know how far ahead to safeguard: the whole route needs to be in safe hands! The point of Exmoor Associates is to secure the route. If they do their job well, there should be little cost associated with this; they may in fact to be able to run at a profit.

One the other hand, just imagine if some Grobbite were to acquire Bratton Fleming... that could potentially delay the project for years and add a lot to the cost.

[grahame]

I don't think it's at all hard to know how far ahead to safeguard: the whole route needs to be in safe hands! The point of Exmoor Associates is to secure the route. If they do their job well, there should be little cost associated with this; they may in fact to be able to run at a profit.

One the other hand, just imagine if some Grobbite were to acquire Bratton Fleming... that could potentially delay the project for years and add a lot to the cost.

You have good points there.  It is excellent to be reminded just how difficult it can be to re-establish an old route should there be someone who has a different vision with an interest along the way.

[Umberleigh]

If you follow the Gosh*tes err sorry, Grobbites link down to the comments there is a properly unhinged comment from 'you know how' that compares the railway to building 250,000 new homes on Exmoor  Protesters really need to learn to stick to the facts, even complaining that its "a railway line between two car parks" is a gross distortion of the reality of rebuilding an historic railway between two of the original stations and running replica trains. Then they wonder why decisions go against them...?

[Umberleigh]

But back to the topic, I worry about funding for the first extension, a lot has happened in the near decade since the Welsh Highland was completed and a lot has happened since March. If, as we must all fear, a major heritage line folds in the near future it will send shockwaves through the sector and call into question new investment.

I admire the vision of those in charge of the L&B but i was always for an extension towards Parracombe once the trackbed was purchased in 2009 and some prominent figures such as the FR's Paul Lewin have voiced the same opinion. The actual running line is less than a mile at present and hasn't moved an inch in either direction since 2005.

[Red Squirrel]

But back to the topic, I worry about funding for the first extension, a lot has happened in the near decade since the Welsh Highland was completed and a lot has happened since March. If, as we must all fear, a major heritage line folds in the near future it will send shockwaves through the sector and call into question new investment.

I admire the vision of those in charge of the L&B but i was always for an extension towards Parracombe once the trackbed was purchased in 2009 and some prominent figures such as the FR's Paul Lewin have voiced the same opinion. The actual running line is less than a mile at present and hasn't moved an inch in either direction since 2005.

It's an interesting question: what would happen if a major heritage line folded?

Often a real tragedy of rail closures is that the trackbeds - the routes - are sold off piecemeal and thus lost for other uses. Nowadays it seems unlikely that this would happen if a line, be it heritage or otherwise, ceased to operate.

Who knows what the future holds? Could a failed heritage line re-invent itself as a profitable railbike adventure?

As to the L&B: it has, as you say, been a slow process. They are playing a long game. I really, really hope they win in the end!

[stuving]

It's an interesting question: what would happen if a major heritage line folded?

Often a real tragedy of rail closures is that the trackbeds - the routes - are sold off piecemeal and thus lost for other uses. Nowadays it seems unlikely that this would happen if a line, be it heritage or otherwise, ceased to operate.

I thought that was the main reason for having a distinct legal entity owning the land, and perhaps some of what's built on it, from the operating one. If set up right, it can't go bust even if it's a an unsatisfied creditor of the operating venture that did.

[grahame]

It's an interesting question: what would happen if a major heritage line folded?

Often a real tragedy of rail closures is that the trackbeds - the routes - are sold off piecemeal and thus lost for other uses. Nowadays it seems unlikely that this would happen if a line, be it heritage or otherwise, ceased to operate.

Who knows what the future holds? Could a failed heritage line re-invent itself as a profitable railbike adventure?

As to the L&B: it has, as you say, been a slow process. They are playing a long game. I really, really hope they win in the end!

There are 146 members of the Heritage Railway Association which could be characterised as "operational tracks between places" and looking at the map / list there are some more "destination line" operations which are not part of the National networks.

Almira-6:jun20 grahamellis$ sort hra | grep ^Type | uniq -c | sort -nr
  79 Type: Standard Gauge
  51 Type: Narrow Gauge
  32 Type: Museum
   9 Type: Cliff Railway / Funicular
   7 Type: Tram
   6 Type: Steam Centre

Some have gone already ... though I would not call them "major" ones (some may argue) Dobwalls, Lochy, Isle of Mull, and I seem to recall but cannot quote one or two that have started with ambitious routes and trimmed back.  I am looking to avoid new speculation about any particular line folding, but lines to Okehampton and to Stanhope were going through widely discussed problems even before the pandemic.   I would, I'm afraid, not be surprised to see services ceasing to operate in places and not returning - perhaps some won't return later this year or even next year or ....

I would be surprised if the costs of maintaining a track and trackbed could be met long term from a rail bike operation; I note that many of the examples around the world run steam / diesel trains on peak days and rail bikes on shoulder days, early in the day and in the early evening.

Speculation - longer line trackbeds would probably be protected but lines might well be disused for a long period; I would not expect to see building in the middle of long trackbeds in the short term, though temporary structure to shore up collapsing overbridges could become permanent to start the rot, bridges over rivers be dangerous and removed and the rot could start.  No magic wand of a new operator taking over, even if pre-2020 passenger journeys were into 6 figures per annum.

[TonyK]

The station is now under offer again, and fundraising has been suspended at just over £7,000.

[Umberleigh]

I would like to think the line to Okehampton is safe from any adverse development or loss of infrastructure in the short to medium term due to the political will to both restore passengers services on the existing line (feasible) and to rebuild the missing link (medium to long term at best).

Its interesting to look around the heritage railway websites and see which are attracted strong financial support fo their reopening appeals and those that sadly aren't.

[TonyK]

I would like to think the line to Okehampton is safe from any adverse development or loss of infrastructure in the short to medium term due to the political will to both restore passengers services on the existing line (feasible) and to rebuild the missing link (medium to long term at best).

Its interesting to look around the heritage railway websites and see which are attracted strong financial support fo their reopening appeals and those that sadly aren't.

I pretty much followed the Okehampton line recently en route to Tavistock from Crediton. I could see little that would impact on the line until Tavistock itself, where I believe the council have some buildings in the way. I have read that they will gladly sacrifice those.