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Author Topic: The end of coal  (Read 12442 times)
Lee
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« Reply #105 on: July 09, 2021, 05:45:54 pm »

Oh, and not to mention furious potential Pullman customers who board the train and find themselves 18 carriages away from the restaurant.

No problem, we could provide a trolley for them instead.
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I have been watching The Damned United, which is a lesson relevant for today.
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #106 on: July 09, 2021, 06:13:22 pm »

Absolutely agree re motor racing by the way, an obscenely expensive waste of resources and damage to the  environment - put them in pedal cars and give them 75 laps of the Magic Roundabout in Swindon instead, it'd be fantastic entertainment!!!  Smiley
That would be a brilliant thing to watch!
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TonyK
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« Reply #107 on: July 09, 2021, 10:24:31 pm »

There are alternatives to flying or driving for leisure.
Either holiday in those parts of the UK (United Kingdom) and the nearer parts of Europe that can be reached by surface public transport, or stay at home.


With respect, I sometimes question whether you live in the real world.



I don't always.  Grin
« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 10:38:58 pm by TonyK » Logged

Now, please!
grahame
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« Reply #108 on: July 10, 2021, 05:43:59 am »

I have split the following post into a new thread - far too important a topic to hide within another topic.  See http://www.passenger.chat/25216

Having wandered off the subject of coal, the general gist of this thread seems to be that the railway, in its current form, is woefully inadequate to be more than a marginal substitute for road traffic and other transport modes that are making various parts of the world rather uncomfortable.

I get a similar message from others setting rail policy or running the railway.

Is it time to retire?
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #109 on: July 10, 2021, 09:34:27 am »

Absolutely agree re motor racing by the way, an obscenely expensive waste of resources and damage to the  environment - put them in pedal cars and give them 75 laps of the Magic Roundabout in Swindon instead, it'd be fantastic entertainment!!!  Smiley
That would be a brilliant thing to watch!

A great deal more entertaining than F1 too!
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TonyK
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« Reply #110 on: July 10, 2021, 11:49:47 am »

I read in yesterday's (behind paywall) newspaper that the noted environmentally alert companies Shell and BP» (Beyond Petroleum (Former name - British Petroleum) - home page) are amongst others queuing for a government handout, to fund further research into making carbon capture and storage into something more useful than the current PowerPoint presentation. The plan seems to be to burn lots more coal, oil and gas, remove the resultant carbon dioxide from the exhaust using witchcraft*, and pump it into holes under the North Sea, helping to force more oil out in the process. Whether, following an earthquake, the North Sea will be renamed the Fizzy Sea is not discussed. There is definitely free money for oil companies, though. I reckon coal could yet continue nice and safely if the heritage rail operators can get in on the act, maybe via sponsorship?

(*Or some form of osmosis or adsorption etc, which are pretty much the same thing as witchcraft. I'm no expert.)
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stuving
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« Reply #111 on: July 10, 2021, 02:02:31 pm »

I read in yesterday's (behind paywall) newspaper that the noted environmentally alert companies Shell and BP» (Beyond Petroleum (Former name - British Petroleum) - home page) are amongst others queuing for a government handout, to fund further research into making carbon capture and storage into something more useful than the current PowerPoint presentation. The plan seems to be to burn lots more coal, oil and gas, remove the resultant carbon dioxide from the exhaust using witchcraft*, and pump it into holes under the North Sea, helping to force more oil out in the process. Whether, following an earthquake, the North Sea will be renamed the Fizzy Sea is not discussed. There is definitely free money for oil companies, though. I reckon coal could yet continue nice and safely if the heritage rail operators can get in on the act, maybe via sponsorship?

(*Or some form of osmosis or adsorption etc, which are pretty much the same thing as witchcraft. I'm no expert.)

I read that too - but got some different facts out of it. Firstly, it's not using an oilfield, current or retired. They are further north, and while there are old gas fields, they are not trusted for long-term reuse due to having many old wells of dubious seal reliability. The Endurance formation is a saline aquifer - so what gets displaced is sea water. The CO2 also dissolves, but as all this happens inside solid, but porous, rocks it's hard to get your head around (unless you have a geologist's head).

The "CCUS cluster sequencing process" isn't R&D (Innovate UK (United Kingdom) has already been funding that), it's for full scale deployment by 2025-ish. The companies claim "full scale" means half the country's industrial CO2 output, and building a pipeline network for collection. The original CO2 source that called for such a big sink was the planned blue hydrogen project on Teesside, but most of the rest already exist. "New power stations" are also mentioned, but may ones planned to be built anyway.

This sort of thing is all temporary and transitional towards true sustainability, of course, though on a timescale of many decades. Here's an industry page (from Upstream) with more details, dating from when the consortium was formed.
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johnneyw
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« Reply #112 on: July 13, 2021, 10:21:52 pm »

I couldn't resist putting this link here rather than on a perhaps more relevant thread but feel free to move it if it seems more appropriate.

It may be the "End of Coal" power as we once knew it but it might be the beginning of coal mines as a source of low carbon energy.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210706-how-flooded-coal-mines-could-heat-homes
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 11:59:36 pm by johnneyw » Logged
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #113 on: July 14, 2021, 09:59:19 am »

I know someone who I think works there.
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TonyK
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« Reply #114 on: July 14, 2021, 12:18:38 pm »

What a good idea!
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broadgage
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« Reply #115 on: July 15, 2021, 01:54:14 pm »

I couldn't resist putting this link here rather than on a perhaps more relevant thread but feel free to move it if it seems more appropriate.

It may be the "End of Coal" power as we once knew it but it might be the beginning of coal mines as a source of low carbon energy.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210706-how-flooded-coal-mines-could-heat-homes

The water from flooded coal mines is not warm enough to directly heat homes or other buildings. A heat pump is required at significant capital cost and ongoing electricity consumption. Arguably better than burning oil or gas, but not as cheap or as green as is often implied.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Western Pathfinder
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« Reply #116 on: July 15, 2021, 02:19:15 pm »

Here's a thought why not use the sites for geothermal,after all there's a fair amount of water already present ,and a good deal of the drilling has been done for you,I'm thinking something along the lines of what's happening at the Eden Project in Cornwall.
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GBM
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« Reply #117 on: July 15, 2021, 02:45:45 pm »

Here's a thought why not use the sites for geothermal,after all there's a fair amount of water already present ,and a good deal of the drilling has been done for you,I'm thinking something along the lines of what's happening at the Eden Project in Cornwall.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/01/full-steam-ahead-for-cornwalls-geothermal-energy-project
Full steam ahead for Cornwall’s geothermal energy project
Team behind project at United Downs site near Redruth say power plant will be producing electricity and heat by next year......
(Continues)
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #118 on: July 15, 2021, 06:45:40 pm »

I couldn't resist putting this link here rather than on a perhaps more relevant thread but feel free to move it if it seems more appropriate.

It may be the "End of Coal" power as we once knew it but it might be the beginning of coal mines as a source of low carbon energy.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210706-how-flooded-coal-mines-could-heat-homes

The water from flooded coal mines is not warm enough to directly heat homes or other buildings. A heat pump is required at significant capital cost and ongoing electricity consumption. Arguably better than burning oil or gas, but not as cheap or as green as is often implied.
But once the heat pump is in you get far more heating (or cooling, depending which way it's running at the time) than the amount of power put into the pump. If you can run that pump off PV or wind or whatever's green at the time, you get more heat for your kilowatt than using that electricity directly for heating.
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broadgage
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« Reply #119 on: July 16, 2021, 12:39:29 am »

Agree, heat pumps can produce several times the heat that would result from direct electric resistance heating.
My point was that electricity is still required, some reports state or imply that water from old mines can provide free heating.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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