The end of coal

[whole diary]

[TonyK]

They could burn trees from ancient forests, and call it "green biomass". That way, there would be subsidies galore. Drax power station does it, so why not?

[TaplowGreen]

Couldn't they be adapted to run on something other than coal?

[broadgage]

Couldn't they be adapted to run on something other than coal?

Possibly but firstly they would then not be "proper" steam locomotives which what the customers want, and secondly alternative fuels all have drawbacks.

Oil burning, nearly as polluting as coal, not traditional.
Turf or peat, has been used historically, especially in the Irish Republic (which has no significant coal) but now frowned upon for environmental reasons.
Logs, possibly, have been used overseas in places lacking coal. Needs alterations to burn effectively in machine designed for coal.
Natural gas, possible in theory but unlikely to due to the costs of compressing or liquifying.
LPG^▸ (Liquefied Petroleum Gas), popular for miniature engines but not "proper" for full size passenger hauling engines.

Smokeless coal derived patent fuels, probably the most likely as are very similar to proper coal. Some types are light green as they contain waste material such as olive stones.

Electricity, hardly practical for a moving engine, but could be used for preheating "on shed" At least one narrow gauge railway does this.

[rogerw]

All changed to coal some time ago. sourcing the used oil which they used became too difficult and expensive

[rower40]

There are a lot of things from the ‘old days’ that we don’t do any more.
Slavery
Bear-baiting
Sending urchins up chimneys
Maybe it’s time to add ‘burning coal for entertainment’ to that list?

[broadgage]

There is still a fair bit of slavery, largely overseas but the odd case crops up even in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom).
Bear baiting is extinct I think but only for want of bears. Bull fighting/bull baiting remains regrettably popular as does dog fighting even in the UK.
Modern chimneys are not suitable for urchins, but children are still used in various dangerous trades, in places less civilised then the UK.

And of course motor racing and air shows burn a great deal of fuel for entertainment. Also the amount of flying and driving for leisure.
I would therefore accept a little coal use by heritage railways, and the odd steam special on the main line.

[TaplowGreen]

And of course motor racing and air shows burn a great deal of fuel for entertainment. Also the amount of flying and driving for leisure.
I would therefore accept a little coal use by heritage railways, and the odd steam special on the main line.

The rather obvious flaw in your argument however is that there is often no alternative to driving or flying, whereas travelling on a train burning coal is 100% a matter of choice.

Absolutely agree re motor racing by the way, an obscenely expensive waste of resources and damage to the  environment - put them in pedal cars and give them 75 laps of the Magic Roundabout in Swindon instead, it'd be fantastic entertainment!!! 

[broadgage]

There are alternatives to flying or driving for leisure.
Either holiday in those parts of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) and the nearer parts of Europe that can be reached by surface public transport, or stay at home.

[TaplowGreen]

There are alternatives to flying or driving for leisure.
Either holiday in those parts of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) and the nearer parts of Europe that can be reached by surface public transport, or stay at home.

With respect, I sometimes question whether you live in the real world.

Notwithstanding that there is more to "driving for leisure" than just holidays, Let's explore your suggestion and just take two popular areas as an example. Approximately 2 million people visit Cornwall each summer, and almost 16 million visit the Lake District annually.

How would you suggest that volume of people travel using "surface public transport"?

Or perhaps they should "stay at home", and consider the effect that will have on the economy of the areas concerned?

[broadgage]

Travel by train to Cornwall is a challenge at the moment due to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) being stuck in covid mode/cracked train mode, and the ongoing staff shortages.

However this wont last forever, and a reliable service of full length trains will presumably return.

Of the two million whom holiday in Cornwall, a reasonable estimate might be that half of these are in the ten week summer holiday season, with the remainder at other times of year.

One million in ten weeks is 100,000 a week, or just over 100 full length IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train), say about 15 trains a day. Certainly doable with more rolling stock and longer trains.

Even I do not expect ALL those who drive to suddenly change to rail. But I expect a gradual shift from road to rail. With rail improvements to match the increased demand.
A reasonable forecast for the medium term might be that of those driving to Cornwall, one third carry on as normal, another third adopt electric cars, and the other third go by train. 5 or 6 full length trains a day.

[IndustryInsider]

Of the two million whom holiday in Cornwall, a reasonable estimate might be that half of these are in the ten week summer holiday season, with the remainder at other times of year.

One million in ten weeks is 100,000 a week, or just over 100 full length IETs^▸ (Intercity Express Train), say about 15 trains a day. Certainly doable with more rolling stock and longer trains.

Couple of questions…

How do your maths work out if:

1)  There’s actually at least 4-5 million visitors to Cornwall each year, as I seem to be finding in search engine results?

2)  You include passengers on Cornish bound trains who are not visiting Cornwall?  For example the many millions (10m+?) who visit Devon or Somerset but whom travel on the same trains?

[broadgage]

Restore to use the extended platform one at Paddington, formerly used for motorail.
Run from this platform a 9+9 IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)* once an hour.
Run fast to Taunton which has a very long platform. Divide at Taunton.
Front portion fast to Plymouth, then popular stations to Penzance. Rear portion popular station to Plymouth and terminate there. Or some other combination as best meets passenger demand.

That would provide an extra dozen trains a day, in capacity terms, but take up no more paths in the congested London area.

*Or some better alternative but of similar length.

[eightonedee]

....and the relevance of today's posts on this thread to its subject matter (The End of Coal) is.....?!

[TaplowGreen]

Restore to use the extended platform one at Paddington, formerly used for motorail.
Run from this platform a 9+9 IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)* once an hour.
Run fast to Taunton which has a very long platform. Divide at Taunton.
Front portion fast to Plymouth, then popular stations to Penzance. Rear portion popular station to Plymouth and terminate there. Or some other combination as best meets passenger demand.

That would provide an extra dozen trains a day, in capacity terms, but take up no more paths in the congested London area.

*Or some better alternative but of similar length.

Well, I'm glad that's that all sorted out!

Is someone going to mention it to Mark Hopwood?

[IndustryInsider]

Restore to use the extended platform one at Paddington, formerly used for motorail.
Run from this platform a 9+9 IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)* once an hour.
Run fast to Taunton which has a very long platform. Divide at Taunton.
Front portion fast to Plymouth, then popular stations to Penzance. Rear portion popular station to Plymouth and terminate there. Or some other combination as best meets passenger demand.

That would provide an extra dozen trains a day, in capacity terms, but take up no more paths in the congested London area.

*Or some better alternative but of similar length.

Well, I'm glad that's that all sorted out!

Is someone going to mention it to Mark Hopwood?

What’s not to like? 

Well, apart from axing all direct trains between Reading and The West Country.  The logistics of the super length platform at either Paddington or Taunton being out of action for some reason.  The fact that leisure travellers generally want to travel at sociable times of the day with a heavy bias to certain days of the week.  The fact that all these extra passengers persuaded to travel by train instead of car will then need public transport to get them to and from wherever they are staying and to and from the attractions they wish to visit whilst there.

Oh, and not to mention furious potential Pullman customers who board the train and find themselves 18 carriages away from the restaurant.