Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
Travel & transport from BBC stories as at 19:15 28 Mar 2024
* Easter getaways hit by travel disruption
- How do I renew my UK passport and what is the 10-year rule?
- Passengers pleaded with knifeman during attack
- Family anger at sentence on fatal crash driver, 19
- Easter travel warning as millions set to hit roads
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

On this day
28th Mar (1988)
Woman found murdered on Orpington to London train (*)

Train RunningCancelled
17:48 Reading to Gatwick Airport
17:54 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
17:57 London Paddington to Worcester Foregate Street
18:03 London Paddington to Penzance
18:08 London Paddington to Frome
Additional 18:25 Shalford to Reading
18:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
18:37 Westbury to Swindon
18:55 Bedwyn to Newbury
19:23 Reading to Gatwick Airport
19:24 Newbury to Bedwyn
19:33 London Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill
19:55 Bedwyn to Newbury
20:13 Swindon to Westbury
20:16 Frome to Westbury
20:49 Newbury to Bedwyn
20:56 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington
21:16 Bedwyn to Newbury
21:53 Newbury to Bedwyn
22:25 Bedwyn to Newbury
22:47 Newbury to Bedwyn
Short Run
15:03 London Paddington to Penzance
16:19 Carmarthen to London Paddington
16:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
16:35 London Paddington to Plymouth
16:50 Plymouth to London Paddington
17:03 London Paddington to Penzance
17:30 London Paddington to Taunton
17:36 London Paddington to Plymouth
17:50 Gloucester to Salisbury
17:59 Gatwick Airport to Reading
18:19 Reading to Gatwick Airport
18:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading
18:54 Reading to Gatwick Airport
18:59 Gatwick Airport to Reading
19:04 Paignton to London Paddington
19:06 London Paddington to Bedwyn
19:13 Salisbury to Bristol Temple Meads
19:29 Gatwick Airport to Reading
20:03 London Paddington to Plymouth
20:42 Bedwyn to London Paddington
21:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
Delayed
13:59 Cardiff Central to Penzance
14:15 Penzance to London Paddington
16:03 London Paddington to Penzance
16:15 Penzance to London Paddington
Additional 17:17 Exeter St Davids to Penzance
Additional 17:26 Castle Cary to Penzance
An additional train service has been planned to operate as shown 18:25 Shalford to Reading
19:04 London Paddington to Plymouth
19:59 Gatwick Airport to Reading
etc
PollsOpen and recent polls
Closed 2024-03-25 Easter Escape - to where?
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
March 28, 2024, 19:24:00 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[133] West Wiltshire Bus Changes April 2024
[132] would you like your own LIVE train station departure board?
[53] Return of the BRUTE?
[44] If not HS2 to Manchester, how will traffic be carried?
[41] Infrastructure problems in Thames Valley causing disruption el...
[32] Reversing Beeching - bring heritage and freight lines into the...
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 13
  Print  
Author Topic: The end of coal  (Read 35268 times)
rower40
Transport Scholar
Sr. Member
******
Posts: 292

Turning signalling into a video game since 1988.


View Profile
« Reply #45 on: August 02, 2020, 22:29:14 »

Cross-border trains from Northern Ireland to the Republic always had empty tenders/bunkers on their return trip North, during WWII (World War 2 - 1939 to 1945).  This was because the Republic, as a neutral country with no coal of its own, needed every last ounce of coal it could get, and was no longer being supplied by the UK (United Kingdom), which needed the coal for powering the hostilities.

My father, as a schoolboy in Dublin during the war, told me that he made his own candles to provide light to study by, as the electricity supply was so unreliable.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2020, 02:04:06 »

....  This was because the Republic, as a neutral country with no coal of its own, ....

It may not have been suitable for rail use, but there was some coal mining in Ireland ... from Wikipedia

Quote
Arigna coal mining

The Arigna Coal Mine is famous for its very shallow deposits. Seams of culm were worked by miners lying on their sides to shovel the coal out. Mining lasted until 1990, and the coal was used for iron works and later for a power plant. With the demolition of the ESB Generating Station chimney, the era of collieries in the area ended.

[snip]

In 1958 the Arigna Power Station was opened to produce electricity. It was the first major power generating station in Connacht. The station was built specifically to burn the semi bituminous coal with its high ash content.

and

Quote
The Cavan & Leitrim Railway was a 3 ft (914 mm) narrow gauge railway in the counties of Leitrim and Cavan in northwest Ireland, which ran from 1887 until 1959. Unusually for Ireland, this 3 ft (914 mm) narrow gauge line survived on coal traffic, from the mine at Arigna. It outlived most of the other Irish narrow-gauge lines, giving a further lease of life to some of their redundant engines.

Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #47 on: February 03, 2021, 18:35:41 »

And remember that for 2022 ... the heritage sector has a different problem ... from Rail Business Daily

Quote
With the end in sight for UK (United Kingdom) coal for UK steam, heritage railways turn their sights overseas for continued supplies of coal.

The UK’s heritage railways have been forced to accept that the battle for continued domestic coal supplies is lost. Stocks from now-closed mines will soon be exhausted. The last mine producing steam coal is scheduled to close.

The Heritage Railway Association (HRA) says in spite of government support for the continued burning of coal by heritage steam operators, policy elsewhere is acting decisively against the opening of new mines. That means UK-produced coal for the nation’s much loved steam railways will run out in early 2022.

“Over the past five years every planning application for a new mine which could have produced the kind of coal we need has been refused,” said Steve Oates, Chief Executive of the HRA. “There are some limited stocks in reserve, and the last producing mine in the UK, Ffos-y-fran in South Wales, will close in early 2022. After that, unless we find an alternative source of supply, heritage railways will be running on coal dust.”
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
GBM
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1468


View Profile Email
« Reply #48 on: February 04, 2021, 10:00:08 »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-55923731
The leading climate scientist James Hansen has warned Boris Johnson that he risks “humiliation“ over plans for a new coal mine in Cumbria.

The UK (United Kingdom) government, which hosts a climate summit this year, has allowed the mine at Whitehaven to go ahead..............

Wrong type of coal?
Logged

Personal opinion only.  Writings not representative of any union, collective, management or employer. (Think that absolves me...........)
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6435


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #49 on: February 04, 2021, 10:54:06 »

Cross-border trains from Northern Ireland to the Republic always had empty tenders/bunkers on their return trip North, during WWII (World War 2 - 1939 to 1945).  This was because the Republic, as a neutral country with no coal of its own, needed every last ounce of coal it could get, and was no longer being supplied by the UK (United Kingdom), which needed the coal for powering the hostilities.

It was not the only fuel, though. Spike Milligan describes how, when the Puckoon Flyer ran out of steam, the driver went off to borrow a bucket of peat. Famously, he stopped for a cup of tea...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-55923731
The leading climate scientist James Hansen has warned Boris Johnson that he risks “humiliation“ over plans for a new coal mine in Cumbria.

The UK government, which hosts a climate summit this year, has allowed the mine at Whitehaven to go ahead..............

Wrong type of coal?

Indeed it is. The mine will provide coking fuel for use in the steel industry. There isn't a viable alternative ingredient at the moment, so the choices are between closing the steelworks and shipping steel across the world, or shipping coal from distant lands, both of which will add to the emissions Mr Hansen is keen to remove. From what I have seen in the planning reports, there will be no opportunity for the heritage rail groups to buy from here. It will have to be Australia or Russia, or find a way of running on battery power.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2021, 10:59:44 by TonyK » Logged

Now, please!
infoman
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1286


View Profile
« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2021, 08:25:13 »

Not my neck of the woods,but may I ask the approx location of the mine?
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40690



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2021, 08:58:14 »

Not my neck of the woods,but may I ask the approx location of the mine?

On the west Cumbrian Coast - Whitehaven / Corcickle / St Bees stations on the nearby railway, which might be a sensible way to get any product out?   The plans are for mine head to be onshore, mining out under the sea. See https://www.westcumbriamining.com/wcm-factsheets/ and pages linked from there. Woodhouse Colliery; address: Whitehaven CA28 9LF
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 09:04:16 by grahame » Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
infoman
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1286


View Profile
« Reply #52 on: February 05, 2021, 09:25:41 »

Thank you Grahame
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2021, 11:54:07 »

The earlier discussed "coal ban" came into force a few days ago on May 1st 2021.

Retail sales of house coal are now prohibited, retail being defined as pre packed in bags or sacks, or small volumes tipped loose.
Patent smokeless fuels derived from coal are still allowed.
Anthracite is still allowed.

House coal may still be sold in bulk for industrial and trade use, it is only retail sale that is banned. Heritage railways are included under trade users.

From the same date, the sale of wet fire wood was also prohibited in small quantities. The wood must be dried to less than 20% moisture before it may lawfully be sold in bags, nets, or tipped loose in deliveries  of less than two cubic meters.

Larger volumes of wet fire wood may still be sold, for the customer to dry, it must be accompanied by instructions on drying.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 03:52:58 by broadgage » Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6435


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2021, 12:58:10 »

The earlier discussed "coal ban" came into force a few days ago on May 1st 2021.

Retail sales of house coal are now prohibited, retail being defined as pre packed in bags or sacks, or small volumes tipped loose.
Patent smokeless fuels derived from coal are still allowed.
Anthracite is still allowed.

House coal may still be sold in bulk for industrial and trade use, it is only retail sale that is banned. Heritage railways are included under trade users.

From the same date, the sale of wet fire wood was also prohibited in small quantities. The wood must be dried to less than 20% moisture before it may lawfully be sold in bags, nets, or tipped loose in less in deliveries  of less than two cubic meters.

Larger volumes of wet fire wood may still be sold, for the customer to dry, it must be accompanied by instructions on drying.

We have just sold our cottage with the open fire. I wonder if my local coal merchant had a sale ("fire sale") to get rid of the stocks? They sell anthracite too, as well as logs, so the locals will still be able to light fires. Not sure they are dried to 20% though. Still - I am sure the villages will survive on bulk supplies. The favoured unit for home delivery is a "dumpy bag", which is about a cubic metre. Two of those would have more than filled my log store, but I am sure neighbours will co-operate, as happened before to take advantage of a price. There has always been a semi-official network of wood suppliers too - I would imagine that might flourish in rural parts.
Logged

Now, please!
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2021, 02:47:45 »

Around here, retail sales of house coal from supermarkets and petrol stations ceased around Christmas. Presumably stocks were reduced in good time to avoid being left with any after the ban.

Patent fuels are a suitable alternative for open fires, and anthracite for closed appliances.

I have recently tried some "eco coal" a patent fuel largely derived from olive stones, an unavoidable by-product of olive oil production. Seems fine.

In general I prefer locally produced wood over any coal based fuel.
At present I am burning small oak logs of which a large supply was available cheaply a couple of years ago.

Two large oaks on a local farm were taken down for building timber, and the small bits sold as fire wood.
I was impressed with speed of the operation.
It took only hours to reduce a large tree to building timber, fire wood, and shredded stuff for composting.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6435


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2021, 09:39:52 »

Two large oaks on a local farm were taken down for building timber, and the small bits sold as fire wood.
I was impressed with speed of the operation.
It took only hours to reduce a large tree to building timber, fire wood, and shredded stuff for composting.

Both a good thing and a bad thing at the same time! A few years ago, we were on holiday in Scotland, far from the madding crowd. We went for a walk in some woods. I watched a machine grabbing trees, cutting them off at the base, trimming them and cutting them into uniform logs, in the space of a minute. Not mighty oaks, which would have taken longer, but still deforestation at an impressive speed. I rather hoped that new trees would be quickly planted, but the purpose was revealed to me later that day, and the area is now under concrete. My ambivalence towards wind farms began that day, reinforced by research since.
Logged

Now, please!
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2021, 09:52:48 »

I am in favour of wind power, we need electricity and if we are to meet our climate change promises, we need to generate a greater proportion of this electricity from renewables.

We need to plant more trees, in between the wind turbines, and in many other places. We need both building timber and firewood.

We need to plant both fast growing trees for inexpensive wood, and also oak and other slow growing trees. There is a demand for oak, primarily for repair and restoration of historic buildings.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 5398



View Profile
« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2021, 16:26:39 »

It looks as though a loophole has been found and that housecoal may still be sold retail.
At least one major coal merchant has stated that only "prepacked" house coal is banned and that sales may continue in "open bags" What a farce !

Sales from supermarkets and petrol stations have probably ceased as such such places cant cope with open bags.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6435


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2021, 17:08:05 »

I am in favour of wind power, we need electricity and if we are to meet our climate change promises, we need to generate a greater proportion of this electricity from renewables.

We need to plant more trees, in between the wind turbines, and in many other places. We need both building timber and firewood.

We need to plant both fast growing trees for inexpensive wood, and also oak and other slow growing trees. There is a demand for oak, primarily for repair and restoration of historic buildings.

So far, almost 14 million trees have been cut down in Scotland to make way for wind farms. That is for both the turbines, and to clear a way for the wind to reach them uninterrupted by anything that would dampen the power. Planting trees between them risks attracting birds and bats.

The best time to plant oak for timber was about 100 years ago. Now would be another good time.
Logged

Now, please!
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 13
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page