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Author Topic: The end of coal  (Read 35276 times)
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #60 on: May 04, 2021, 20:52:45 »

It looks as though a loophole has been found and that housecoal may still be sold retail.
At least one major coal merchant has stated that only "prepacked" house coal is banned and that sales may continue in "open bags" What a farce !

Sales from supermarkets and petrol stations have probably ceased as such such places cant cope with open bags.
That would appear to be correct for the next couple of years.
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Sales of all bagged traditional house coal will be phased out by February 2021, and the sale of loose coal direct to customers via approved coal merchants by February 2023. This will give industry, suppliers and households the time to adapt to the new rules.

Similarly, sales of wet wood in units of under 2m3 will be restricted from sale from February 2021, allowing for existing stocks to be used up. Wet wood sold in volumes greater than 2m3 will need to be sold with advice on how to dry it before burning from this date.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-takes-action-to-cut-pollution-from-household-burning
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TonyK
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« Reply #61 on: May 04, 2021, 23:10:51 »

It wouldn't be a British regulation if it didn't have a loophole, or a "classed as" exemption to allow a flight of fancy.
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Lee
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« Reply #62 on: May 04, 2021, 23:20:40 »

It wouldn't be a British regulation if it didn't have a loophole, or a "classed as" exemption to allow a flight of fancy.

You aint seen nothing yet - Just wait until I open my "Museum of Network Rail.Business Plans".
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johnneyw
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« Reply #63 on: June 16, 2021, 10:29:31 »

There's interesting results from an eCoal experiment on the Bure Valley railway in Norfolk.

https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2021/06/norfolks-bure-valley-railway-tests-new-bio-coal-for-steam-locomotives.html
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broadgage
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« Reply #64 on: June 16, 2021, 13:14:10 »

There's interesting results from an eCoal experiment on the Bure Valley railway in Norfolk.

https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2021/06/norfolks-bure-valley-railway-tests-new-bio-coal-for-steam-locomotives.html


This sounds rather like the "eco coal" that I tried in a domestic multifuel stove, see post #55.
It worked fine and but is only light green as it still contains about 50% coal.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
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« Reply #65 on: June 16, 2021, 14:12:01 »


This sounds rather like the "eco coal" that I tried in a domestic multifuel stove, see post #55.
It worked fine and but is only light green as it still contains about 50% coal.

That's still an awful lot "greener" than Greenpeace in Germany, selling natural gas with under 1% "green" hydrogen made by wind energy. The loss of green energy to the grid isn't a problem, as it can be made up by burning lignite.
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johnneyw
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« Reply #66 on: June 16, 2021, 14:32:10 »

What also caught my attention in the article was that if left to landfill, the olive waste could have contributed to methane leaking into the atmosphere anyway.
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broadgage
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« Reply #67 on: June 16, 2021, 15:18:39 »


This sounds rather like the "eco coal" that I tried in a domestic multifuel stove, see post #55.
It worked fine and but is only light green as it still contains about 50% coal.

That's still an awful lot "greener" than Greenpeace in Germany, selling natural gas with under 1% "green" hydrogen made by wind energy. The loss of green energy to the grid isn't a problem, as it can be made up by burning lignite.

I am shocked that that natural gas with about 1% hydrogen is called green. Not that keen on the ecocoal, but as you point out 50% is a very considerable improvement on 1%.

A few years ago it was proposed that newly built houses could not be gas heated, and I have heard the suggestion that a loophole has been found. Gas boilers might be allowed if marked "hydrogen ready" the percentage of hydrogen not being stated. 1% perhaps ?
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
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« Reply #68 on: June 16, 2021, 15:48:28 »


I am shocked that that natural gas with about 1% hydrogen is called green. Not that keen on the ecocoal, but as you point out 50% is a very considerable improvement on 1%.

A few years ago it was proposed that newly built houses could not be gas heated, and I have heard the suggestion that a loophole has been found. Gas boilers might be allowed if marked "hydrogen ready" the percentage of hydrogen not being stated. 1% perhaps ?

I was shocked that Greenpeace is selling gas at all, but telling everyone to stop using gas is an expensive business, so I guess they need the cash.

Gas boilers in my childhood were not as plentiful as now, but burned 50% hydrogen. Most converted to natural gas easily, and modern science being what it is, I am sure that making a boiler that could work on natural gas or hydrogen with minimal work would be easy. I would imagine that they won't be tested for that for many years anyway. The country has a national lack of manufacturing resources for the air-source heaters that will be needed, and an even bigger deficit of accredited installers.
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« Reply #69 on: June 16, 2021, 20:45:02 »

Back to the original topic, and how to fire steam engines when there's no coal.   All this talk of alternatives - is it beyond the wit of man person to make heat-eggs which are induction charged overnight, then put into the firebox prior to service, switched on via WiFi and get very hot just like coal does to boil the water.  Difference being that the cool down at the end of the day and get put back into the induction charger overnight and so on.
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johnneyw
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« Reply #70 on: June 16, 2021, 21:22:37 »

But will there be no coal?  Is not one of the benefits of making the great majority of future transportation carbon neutral that it allows for limited fossil fuel heritage technologies such a steam power to continue?  Should not the question really be, how can a modest amount of coal be economically mined to supply this sector?  Perhaps a productive heritage mine?
You can use the same rationale with vintage motor cars although synthetic fuel would probably be easier to produce?
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broadgage
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« Reply #71 on: June 16, 2021, 22:26:03 »

There wont be "no coal" for many years yet.
Anthracite and coal derived smokeless patent fuels are still available, with no proposed bans.
House coal can still be sold in bulk to industrial  users which includes heritage railways.

I am in favour of reducing coal consumption as it is a carbon intensive fuel.
Coal burning steam engines are inherently un-green, and heritage railways should try to be as green as possible.



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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
johnneyw
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« Reply #72 on: June 16, 2021, 22:54:57 »


I am in favour of reducing coal consumption as it is a carbon intensive fuel.
Coal burning steam engines are inherently un-green, and heritage railways should try to be as green as possible.


Be green as possible by all means but heritage steam is deeply linked with coal.  The amount needed for heritage lines would be an environmental irrelevance in an otherwise future post fossil fuel world.  The educational value as well as the heritage interest of coal powered steam traction would be diluted to a very detrimental degree without the presence of the small amount of coal it requires. 
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Witham Bobby
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« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2021, 10:15:06 »

A little internet search reveals that there are at present 184 coal-fired power stations under construction in China.  I don't see how the "decarbonisation" (a totally impossible target and almost certainly prohibitively expensive) that is now stated Government policy for the UK (United Kingdom) is going to make all that much difference to the atmosphere.  It'll just make us all colder, less free, and less prosperous
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broadgage
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« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2021, 15:05:06 »

The carbon emissions of the UK (United Kingdom) are indeed a small part of the world total.
We should IMHO (in my humble opinion) still do our bit to reduce such emissions, if everyone said "my bit is too small to worry about" than there would be no hope for the climate.

China has a very poor record on the environment.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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