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Author Topic: The end of coal  (Read 19583 times)
broadgage
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« Reply #135 on: January 13, 2022, 02:53:28 am »

The ban on housecoal is not to save the planet. The carbon emissions from use of permitted anthracite and from "prohibited" house coal are about the same per unit of heat.

The purpose of the ban is to improve local air quality by reducing smoke and fine particulate emissions.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
TonyK
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« Reply #136 on: January 13, 2022, 12:31:42 pm »

The ban on housecoal is not to save the planet. The carbon emissions from use of permitted anthracite and from "prohibited" house coal are about the same per unit of heat.

The purpose of the ban is to improve local air quality by reducing smoke and fine particulate emissions.

My mistake. Never easy to tell which box is being ticked these days. Good to hear that local air quality is being improve by this bag slitting. I wonder why no-one thought of it before?
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broadgage
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« Reply #137 on: January 26, 2022, 11:53:08 am »

The ban on housecoal is becoming less effective by the day.
"bulk" is now defined not as a ton or more, but as meaning "not pre packed" So a single bag is fine provided that this is opened and therefore not prepacked.

Most coal merchants have a minimum delivery volume of 10 bags, or one quarter of a ton, but that is simple economics and applies also to permitted patent fuels and anthracite.

Most supermarkets and petrol filling stations cant cope with open bags so that has SLIGHTLY restricted sales. Around here a community group is organising deliveries of ten open bags to one address for local distribution to other residents in order to evade the ban, which is ANOTHER imposition on the poor, who apparently all heat with open coal fires.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #138 on: January 26, 2022, 12:14:37 pm »

I'm sure it was given earlier, but of all coal consumed in UK (United Kingdom), how much is used domestically? How much used by heritage rail?
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grahame
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« Reply #139 on: January 26, 2022, 02:30:16 pm »

Follow up ... issues with forum posting ... here's what I recovered:

In 2019 (tonnes):

Industry:    1425932
Railways:   15000
Electricity:  2906094
Domestic   491776
Miscellaneous: 30677
Coke ovens & solid fuels: 3093591

Source
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #140 on: January 26, 2022, 03:00:49 pm »

Thanks. I'm surprised by how large a proportion domestic use is.
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Oxonhutch
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« Reply #141 on: January 26, 2022, 03:51:45 pm »

Thanks Graham for recovering that. The chart in part 4 of the source linked above is also very illustrative.
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anthony215
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« Reply #142 on: January 26, 2022, 06:45:37 pm »

On BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Wales news one mine in Glyneath South wales been given a new licence to dig coal to supply port Talbot steel works
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broadgage
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« Reply #143 on: January 26, 2022, 09:04:35 pm »

On BBC» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Wales nmade from coal.ews one mine in Glyneath South wales been given a new licence to dig coal to supply port Talbot steel works

I am glad to hear of this, which may surprise some people in view of my well known concerns about climate change and fossil fuel usage.

There is no readily available* way to produce iron and steel without* coke made from coal.
Iron and steel are essential materials for a modern society, or indeed even for a Victorian society. Steel is used to build railways, ships, modern buildings, bridges, and almost all modern machinery. In the event of war, iron and steel are vital for the manufacture of weapons.

I see no merit in importing coal or steel works coke , nor in importing ready made iron and steel., probably from china.
China has an appalling record on human rights, and on the environment. I see no merit in becoming reliant in imports of such strategic materials.
Retaining iron and steel manufacture within the UK (United Kingdom), including the supply of fuel used in this manufacture is in my view a matter of national security.

* Iron and steel CAN be made by the use of charcoal, obtained from trees, this was done centuries ago, but is completely unsuitable for large scale manufacture. I have heard, but can not substantiate, that one thousand tons of trees are needed to make one ton of iron.

Iron and steel can also be made in a furnace fueled by hydrogen and oxygen, these gases can be obtained from water by renewably generated electricity. This process shows some promise for the future, but wont help for this years and next years iron and steel requirements. A little coke or perhaps charcoal is still needed, but very little.

The need for new iron and steel can be reduced by recycling of already existing and now redundant material, but some new manufacture will still be needed.

So reluctantly I support UK coal mining for strategically important purposes, but NOT for general use.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
patch38
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« Reply #144 on: March 13, 2022, 03:06:50 pm »

Quote
Llangollen Railway may have to cut services as it stops buying Russian coal:

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/local-hubs/mid-wales/2022/03/12/railway-to-shun-russian-coal/
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broadgage
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« Reply #145 on: March 13, 2022, 05:45:27 pm »

Quote
Llangollen Railway may have to cut services as it stops buying Russian coal:

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/local-hubs/mid-wales/2022/03/12/railway-to-shun-russian-coal/

Seems an over reaction to me.
I am in favour of boycotting Russian coal and other goods, but believe that the railway should be able to obtain non Russian supplies.
Anthracite is not the ideal fuel for locomotives but can be used, it is produced in Wales. It has a good calorific vale and produces little smoke, but may need generous use of the blower to urge the fire.
Housecoal can be obtained from Colombia, most coal merchants have stocks.
Various patent fuels are available, including the ovoids mentioned in the report.
"Eco coal" is available from many suppliers, it is only somewhat eco but better than real coal. It is made partly from olive stones, an unavoidable by product of the olive oil industry.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
infoman
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« Reply #146 on: April 17, 2022, 05:48:27 pm »

item on Sky news that the conflict in Ukraine has seen coals supplys dry up.

Think it should be shown again,although it MIGHT be on the play again option,

I saw the item on Sunday afternoon at 17:40pm ish

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ChrisB
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« Reply #147 on: April 17, 2022, 08:40:03 pm »

Been all over the rail online heritage rail sites for a week or so now. Looking to Australia to siurce the right calorific value coal now
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MVR S&T
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« Reply #148 on: April 17, 2022, 09:01:53 pm »

Yes we are using a glued together mix of coal dust and olive stones!
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grahame
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« Reply #149 on: April 17, 2022, 09:58:52 pm »

I saw the piece repeated on Sky News within the last hour.   Saying by one bloke "if this is not solved, [some] heritage railways will have to close".  How many heritage railways are there without alternative diesel traction?  Is it time to electrify some more heritage railways?
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