Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum
GWR advice (Project Phoenix)
Forum in and beyond Coronavirus
Great Western Coffee Shop
[home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 18/08/20 - Tuesday Club - ONLINE
24/08/20 - Challenge of Decarb. - ONLINE
16/09/20 - Melksham Rail User Group
17/09/20 - National Rail Awards
Random Image
Train Running Polls Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail news GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
August 15, 2020, 03:09:47 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[116] And you thought some UK liverys where bad
[64] HST derailment, near Stonehaven, 12th August 2020
[53] New Totem Generator
[47] Finn and bignosemac's return to the rails. Where were we today...
[28] Gloucester to Hereford via Ross on Wye
[25] 2020 - TransWilts cancellation and amendment log
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: When should we stop analysing and do some doing?  (Read 3802 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 30250



View Profile WWW Email
« on: June 26, 2020, 06:56:20 am »

A cynical reply from me to a Facebook post ...

Quote
In generality, we need a report on how many reports we need at at what point we should stop reporting and actually get on with things, taking the risk that we haven't reported enough to achieve a perfect outcome. Of course, such a report would need a feasability study first ...


Do we over-do the analysis these days?
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
chuffed
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1361


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2020, 08:47:11 am »

Definitely. All 7,500 pages of the DCO for Portishead ? I wouldn't be surprised if 7,499 of these were for newt mitigation ponds, climbing frames,  and newt Hiltons.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 11:52:30 am by chuffed » Logged
eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4421


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2020, 09:32:55 am »

What I've noticed is that we don't seem to do proper Systems analysis anymore.

Looking at the boundaries the inputs and expected outputs, the processess to be performed in system. Using tools such as Operational Research, Work Study, Organisation and Methods.

 I worked for the Divisional Manager Central Division (SR) who insisted that at any report was no longer than one side of A4, on which he would cross question you on rigorously, woe betide you if you didn't have the relevant data to hand to back up your recommendations.

But nobody can master 7500 pages. It's a waste of paper.

I keep quoting Science at War as there are numerous examples of clever sometimes counter intuitive solutions to various problems.

I wonder how long it would take today to decide that doubling the size of a convoy has several positive effects. Only one convoy for the U boats to find, doubling the area doesn't double the perimeter meaning each escort has less area to patrol and therefore more likely to pick up a Uboat. Also with limited number of torpedoes more ships are likely to survive an attack as compared with attacks on 2 convoys.

Edit: Corrected a few typos - RS
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 11:28:15 am by Red Squirrel » Logged
Trowres
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 556


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2020, 11:34:07 am »

Don't conflate analysis with report-writing. They are not the same thing.
Logged
broadgage
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3275



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2020, 04:06:51 pm »

I feel that in many respects we spend far too much time and money on analysing, studying, consulting, and reporting, rather than getting on and actually doing something.

HS2 is a good example, decades of study which is still ongoing.

And this culture is not confined to the railways, but is a national disease. As an example there is a fairly general acceptance that climate change is a serious problem, yet actual action is rather lacking.
How many electric tram schemes have been studied and reported upon, and how many have been built.
How many reports into zero carbon housing, and how many such homes have been built.

If anything looks like getting built, time to call for reports on a more radical alternative that pushes actual construction further into the future.
Logged

A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
CyclingSid
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 958


Hockley viaduct


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2020, 05:44:23 pm »

Similar to eightf48544 post, Churchill (not in fashion at present) always said it must be one side of foolscap or less. Writing briefly is a rarely practiced art nowadays. When a document has a 100 page summary I am afraid I have better things to do with my time, at work or otherwise.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 30250



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2020, 05:59:34 pm »

Writing briefly is a rarely practiced art nowadays.

Twitter?
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Vice Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, and on the board of TravelWatch SouthWest.
eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4421


View Profile Email
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2020, 09:21:21 am »

Twitter too brief look at the problems it causes.

I probably haven't expressed myself properly about the absence of Sytems Analysis, you only have to look at the numerous poorly design websites around to see what I mean. Facebook IMO
is one of the worst.
Logged
Robin Summerhill
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 790


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2020, 05:47:13 pm »

Similar to eightf48544 post, Churchill (not in fashion at present) always said it must be one side of foolscap or less. Writing briefly is a rarely practiced art nowadays. When a document has a 100 page summary I am afraid I have better things to do with my time, at work or otherwise.

There could be  reason for that.

When I was wading through archive council minutes back to the late 19th century in the Wiltshire Records Office some 20 years ago. it was striking how much more concise and to the point minutes were in the days before they started to type them (c1930)

It is far quicker to type rather than write out minutes in longhand, and computer keyboards have only exacerbated the situation.
Logged
onthecushions
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 805


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2020, 11:31:45 pm »


If you pay a lawyer by the word, you'll get many words.

If you pay an accountant to economise, you'll get austerity.

If you pay an administrator to devise a process, you'll get a very intricate process.

If you pay an engineer to analyse a problem, you'll get a cost effective technical solution.

OTC

Logged
Lee
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6700

He who laughs last hasn't got all the facts.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2020, 12:08:16 pm »

On the other side of the coin, since the mid-2000s, virtually all potential closure proposals have been spotted early due to them being mentioned in some report or other, with many being promptly nipped in the bud as a result before they could be progressed.
Logged

Currently muddling along the Guingamp-Carhaix line

http://twitter.com/research_gwchat
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page